My analog A/V setup - 240p goodness

[Smashbro29]

And your end goal is to get everything RGB for your XRGB Framemeister Mini?
Honestly I would avoid Component. Component YPBPR signals use the chroma subsampling methods used by JPEG and MPEG compression schemes.
RGB is a lossless, uncompressed format. You have less of a chance to have image artifacts and a clearer picture.

That said I am not brave enough to modify my Game cube component cable.

As for c sync http://retrorgb.com/csync.html

What all the systems you have and want in the setup?
So far I think I see PS2, Game Cube and Dreamcast.

The Toro is your bets bet for the Dreamcast, it output RGBS or RGBHV.

The goal isn’t just to get RGB, I have RGB via SCART but it’s a mess, SCART connections are shitty, there’s no switches, for some odd reason my Genesis will only output video so long as there’s a 32x involved, I just want to reset, use the cables as seen here and just have a solid set up.

I would go RGB but like you I’m not chopping up a 200$ (not that I paid that) cable for marginally better picture. I’ll make a concession there and hope someone clones the cable so I can make the change or in the future they might just come out with an upscaler that handles component really well and I’ll be ready to simply take advantage of that. It’s all in the future, for right now I just need to re-route it because the mini shits itself when you use component.

csync is going to be its own little adventure I’m sure. What I use and have now is SCART and I bought it all so long ago I have no idea what the specifics are on them.

SNES
Genesis
Saturn
N64
PS1
Dreamcast
PS2
Gamecube
Xbox

I’m probably going to get others as time goes on like a NES/FamicomRGB Modded)

So a toro is a good idea. I just wanted to get that 240p/480i/480p choice.

Where can I throw an Emotia into all this? That seems like a really neat thing to have, force 240p at will.

[Darksakul]

Emotia? Depending on the model and fuction, it be near the end of your video chain going into your TV.

N64 is going to be a minor pain in the ass, as it need a mod for RGB. Earlier models just need the RGB lines added and amplified.
http://retrorgb.com/n64rgbcompatible.html I am luckly enough to score a main board from an older N64 and installed the RetroRGB AMP

Later models will have to have a special board.

I would read up on http://retrorgb.com/

[Smashbro29]

Emotia? Depending on the model and fuction, it be near the end of your video chain going into your TV.

N64 is going to be a minor pain in the ass, as it need a mod for RGB. Earlier models just need the RGB lines added and amplified.
http://retrorgb.com/n64rgbcompatible.html I am luckly enough to score a main board from an older N64 and installed the RetroRGB AMP

Later models will have to have a special board.

I would read up on http://retrorgb.com/

I read there every chance I get. It’s how I picked out my Genesis and cables and all that for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vu8TkT9FLk

I already had my early model N64 done, I use RGB SCART with that already.

Right now I’m actually looking into modding my PS1 to use cysnc instead of luma.

As far as pre-component/DC goes I want to ensure what I do have right now is c-sync and I want to find someone reliable who can convert them to these kinds of cables.

Then I need to find out what I need the switches to do for me specifically beyond the obvious switching because it seems like there’s a lot more going on there.

[R-CADE_Gaming]

I have no experience with X-RGB’s so this’ll be about all I can say about it. I do know that sometimes they are sensitive to things that can’t be seen on a 15kHz tube like mine, so your results may vary.

What’s going on in the switch boxes are color adjustment pots, which I think you may not need with the X-RGB, and a sync stripper in the last one in the chain. That last part is key. You don’t need to bother with modding things to output c sync. Composite video as sync is fine because you can run everything (c video or c sync) through a sync stripper IC and get clean c sync out to send to the X-RGB. I use an EL4583 because I need the separate and H and V outputs, but since you only need c sync you should use an LM1881, which will be simpler, cheaper, and of equal quality. Don’t use the circuit I posted above, I’ve found things about it that need improving since gaining some more knowledge and getting a scope.

You can use a component to RGB transcoder for your component sources, but you don’t really need an RGB interface. You can use a very simple circuit with an XOR gate to combine H and V to C sync. You could add a few more components to build your own component to RGB transcoder circuit for that matter.

Do you really need an Emotia? Can’t the X-RGB mini do that?

There is a circuit that can be used to convert 480i directly to 240p. It only works well with simple line-doubled content though, otherwise it causes flickering. It just aligns the two fields by removing the half line offset from vertical sync, which is the same method Fudoh uses with an RGB interface as he describes on his website.

All these extra components could be eliminated with the proper circuitry, which could all be housed inside a switch box. It could also autodetect and properly handle RGBS, RGB w/ c video, RGBHV, and YPbPr component based on the pinout of the connected cable. (You can input component into the switch boxes by making an adapter cable). The ultimate would be to eliminate the rotary switches, use some 4066’s for digital switching, and control it with an Arduino.

I also don’t think there’s any need for any of these Dreamcast VGA boxes. Dreamcast outputs RGBHV and RGBS natively, you just need to connect a cable to it with the right pinout.

Oh, and buy a new Sega Genesis.

[Darksakul]

Yeah I figured getting everything to C-sync is a waste of time and money
The only XRGB unit that picky with Sync is the Framemeister Mini, and you only need the sync cleaner at that last step, the adapter going into the Framemeister Mini.

These guys make a nice passive sync cleaner for the Framemeister Mini
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk
Yes they are in the UK but they do ship to the US

Everything about the Mini is here
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-mini_FRAMEMEISTER

Do you really need an Emotia? Can’t the X-RGB mini do that?

I somehow over looked that, yes Xrgb Mini does its own scalling, it actually outputs 720p and 1080p, calling something down to 240p is unnecessary.

[Smashbro29]

I have no experience with X-RGB’s so this’ll be about all I can say about it. I do know that sometimes they are sensitive to things that can’t be seen on a 15kHz tube like mine, so your results may vary.

What’s going on in the switch boxes are color adjustment pots, which I think you may not need with the X-RGB, and a sync stripper in the last one in the chain. That last part is key. You don’t need to bother with modding things to output c sync. Composite video as sync is fine because you can run everything (c video or c sync) through a sync stripper IC and get clean c sync out to send to the X-RGB. I use an EL4583 because I need the separate and H and V outputs, but since you only need c sync you should use an LM1881, which will be simpler, cheaper, and of equal quality. Don’t use the circuit I posted above, I’ve found things about it that need improving since gaining some more knowledge and getting a scope.

You can use a component to RGB transcoder for your component sources, but you don’t really need an RGB interface. You can use a very simple circuit with an XOR gate to combine H and V to C sync. You could add a few more components to build your own component to RGB transcoder circuit for that matter.

Do you really need an Emotia? Can’t the X-RGB mini do that?

There is a circuit that can be used to convert 480i directly to 240p. It only works well with simple line-doubled content though, otherwise it causes flickering. It just aligns the two fields by removing the half line offset from vertical sync, which is the same method Fudoh uses with an RGB interface as he describes on his website.

All these extra components could be eliminated with the proper circuitry, which could all be housed inside a switch box. It could also autodetect and properly handle RGBS, RGB w/ c video, RGBHV, and YPbPr component based on the pinout of the connected cable. (You can input component into the switch boxes by making an adapter cable). The ultimate would be to eliminate the rotary switches, use some 4066’s for digital switching, and control it with an Arduino.

I also don’t think there’s any need for any of these Dreamcast VGA boxes. Dreamcast outputs RGBHV and RGBS natively, you just need to connect a cable to it with the right pinout.

Oh, and buy a new Sega Genesis.

My main man R-CADE coming back in full force for me today, nice juicy post to reply to. I love this guy.

So basically a sync stripper at the end of the chain before it hits the mini is identical to hunting down and getting c-sync out of every console? That’s a relief. People on shmups were hyping c-sync to high heaven. So I don’t have to do as much to the switches. Audrino maybe later though that sounds like the coolest thing ever.

Any more details on that XOR gate? Something I could hand off to R-CADE Gaming someone who’s gonna do it right? I’ve already got an Extron 201 rxi from forever ago if that helps.

Emotia from my understanding can get me 240p out of things that don’t traditionally output that, I was thinking it would be a benefit to me to have certain things (GameBoy Player, SF3 on DC) have a source signal with the “correct” resolution.

With Dreamcast I had been pointed towards the toro for the ability to switch between all possible modes at will. Is there an easier method for that or is it just slightly cheaper? I’m trying to weigh my options while keeping that functionality.

Sounds like one hell of a project for the inside of one of these switches and I’m gonna need a few of them too, or is it only the “lead” one that needs the heavy modification?

Genesis works in composite, it has something to do with sync being stripped by a cable or not being stripped or something. It’s incredibly confusing to me.

[pzlate]

I’ve been wondering if it would be worth trying to piece together a cap kit for my BVM 20F1U. My tube has like a small section on the left side where it’ll stretch and retract, which is kind of bothersome for some 2D games that scroll at a specific speed.

[Darksakul]

I’ve been wondering if it would be worth trying to piece together a cap kit for my BVM 20F1U. My tube has like a small section on the left side where it’ll stretch and retract, which is kind of bothersome for some 2D games that scroll at a specific speed.

It’s a common repair for arcade monitors, just to recap them. Capacitors loose their charge capacity over time.
I don’t see how a BVM is any different. I say if you are up to it, its worth a try (cost of some caps compared to a replacement monitor).

[R-CADE_Gaming]

Any more details on that XOR gate?