Power stone I think can work for Hawkeye just because a zoning character that can get improved offense is always good. A Hawkeye that can suddenly move in and rush you down with no pushblock available is pretty scary and his full screen combos if/when they hit will definitely do more damage and have new combo routes due to the hit stun changes. Pretty much every character gets good rushdown if you can’t pushblock them. Even really shitty strings becomes difficult to deal with without pushblock.
No pushblock also means you can’t use the typical pushblock patterns against zoning characters to space yourself out of zoning strings and get away. Power stone could be low key strong for zoners if you account for all of that. Arthur is going to love forcing goddess braclet super down people’s throats with tagged into more BS that they have to sit and hold.
I guess according to what was said it still negates chip if you pushblock though. Sounds like you can still technically pushblock, you just lose the pushback effect. So I guess the opponent can still negate chip.
The Soul stone will be interesting to see. It’s likely that it could be the one, no duration super. I really can’t imagine how they would make a temporary resurrection work. It just seems weird to come up with in concept. I think it would be complicated for someone new to have to account for a character that temporarily comes back to them after death.
Soul stone is definitely going to be the most interesting one as far as properties especially considering the surge is rumored to “passively” build health back. Definitely a wait and see thing with that stone.
Haggar for example might be able to play the zoning game with barrels putting them in blockstun in the air, and then Space Suege on landing pulling them in for the grab before they have a chance to press a button or jump out.
Interesting to think about. Something that could work in theory, but just a matter of seeing it in practice. I’m interested to know what the frames and invincibility or vulnerability are on a tag in general.
Depends on how long the block stun lasts on the barrels. Might be easier if they pushblock since that increases block stun. Providing the space stone can pull them quickly enough after the push back
Moves with short block stun like that will most likely be pretty good for mix up since long multi hitting moves just turn on auto block as long as it has the opponent in block stun. You likely won’t be able to actually mix someone up during million dollars until the gap before the last shot.
Also makes me wonder if the game works like Marvel 3 where any attack coming from an off screen or assist character negates pushblock. That’s definitely part of what made the game very assist reliant as most strings could just be braindead pushed away without an assist. Which is why characters with multi hit normals on point were stronger by themselves during pressure since multi hit block strings lessened the pushback a lot.
Isn’t N the current best groove now in Japan? That just goes to show that time and extended play can shift what gems are considered best. It’s another layer to the meta we’ll have to keep our eye on. It might be a case of where a stone may be the 2nd or 3rd best for a character, but happens to be so for a specific set of characters that whrn teamed up become really good.
Might be. I haven’t followed competitive CVS2 since SFIV came out. It’s funny cuz a lot of the recent acho vids I’ve watched of the game, N groove still didn’t seem to be played that often.
Wouldn’t surprise me though as people have probably optimized offense with that groove. US was always complacent with just kinda playing defensively with the tried and true grooves while the Ohnuki rushdown was solid, but not considered as powerful. Wonder what other reasons are for that placement.
Yeah it’s like how Doom rocks makes Strider near top tier or missiles make Morrigan top tier, but you can’t just give Cable rocks to make him as gdlk as he is with an AA assist or give Wolverine missiles as an optimal assist.
It gets more complicated with Marvel as since anything can be an assist it’s likely that there will be characters that are only at their toppest tier when paired with a certain other character’s tag options. Which would force the meta where the player would have to play that character and use that special tag to get the assist necessary to make them be optimal. Which would be very tough to balance as you can’t just like Marvel 2/3 pick 2 characters and then use that other guy as an assist. If that one character provides an assist on tag that’s gdlk for that character, you’re going to pretty much have to play that character with that character and every other pairing will be unable to access that tool.
Especially since absolutely everything is open to assist via the tag option, it’s likely things that aren’t normally selected as assists suddenly become gdlk options or there may be a specific 3 or 4 special moves that a character has that just really assist another character in a way that no other character can. Your 2 characters essentially give you access to what could literally be dozens and dozens of “assists”. If any of those combinations start getting too OP over what the other combinations can do, then you get a huge meta shift that will be tough to surpass or counter.
It’s going to get really really complicated and then combine that with the stones and we’ll get taken for a ride for sure.
idk i feel like all this type of shit is going to be auto blocked. everything ive heard so far makes it sound like the auto block is really expansive in this game
You really just have to take what @Dime says about these kinds of games to heart - “blocking is death”.
StriderDoom is the poster team for theory best in the game (aside from Dhalsim and his theory infinites that would make him top tier if people could actually hit them). Same boat as N Blanka/Chun-Li/Sagat was for awhile in CvS2 before the Japanese started pushing that groove. Makes me excited for how MvC:I develops with how everyone is looking viable. Maybe this time, we’ll actually be able to see the theory teams developed. I believe UMvC3 almost had it with people figuring stuff out, just a bit too late in its life (also, some of the theory in that game is scary, e.g. theory Morrigan looking even more busted than current Morrigan).
Long lockdown moves not that good for everyone because of autoblock
Zoning less effective because of less chip
It will be interesting. It appears you’ll have to tag before your move comes out to really have hard to blockables, but since you won’t have something to cover your stuff (it appears tagging when they’re blocking thakes a really long time for the tag to cooldown, so covering your assist so he can do something to cover you will be hard), if they call it, you can get happy birthday’d.
I’m really interested to see some different builds doing work, and I really hope the “creativity” isn’t just a meme.
Not to go all teacher mode on you, but just to point something out for those that don’t know. There’s a difference between zoning and keepaway, zoning will still be effective because the purpose of zoning is to narrow down your opponents options and encourage them into an unfavourable position, so block damage doesn’t really matter where zoning is concerned as that’s more about screen control and positioning. Keepaway is aimed at specifically keeping your opponent away from you and this is where chip damage is effective, as you have no goal other than to keep them away from you for as long as possible. The two do go hand in hand and you can move from one strategy to the other, but there is a big difference between the two, and the lack of chip damage will definitely discourage keepaway tactics.
There’s actually a difference between zoning, keepaway and runaway. Most already know this. But I would be remiss not to mention it:
Zoning = trying to keep the opponent in an unfavorable screen position relative to yours. Usually done from midrange aka footsie range.
Keepaway = standing your ground and keeping the opponent from advancing in on you. This is actually very hard to accomplish outside of broken games, but the distinction needs to be made so that the difference between keepaway and runaway can be explained.
Runaway = using your movement, primarily backwards movement and crossup/crossunder movement, to maintain distance from the opponent.
Most “keepaway” in the new school takes the form of runaway.
Keepaway tends to be higher damage, big on chip, and has lots of moves dedicated to shutting down approach options in a very strong linear fashion.
Runaway tends to be lower damage because of the inability to attack while running away.
There are of course characters that get around that issue… it’s usually characters that can jump backwards and throw out some form of air coverage like morrigan soul fists or akuma air fireball etc etc.
I don’t know how the autoblock works in mvci, but it seems to have some component of what skullgirls has. SG also has autoblock, but you have to get it via a pushblock into blocking switch. Still though, it invalidated a lot of my earlier skullgirls mixup that were based around lockdown assist into high low mixup.
So the game came to be played more along the lines of baiting pushblocks and using throws, and using invincible assists to hit your opponent into a confirm. It seems like throws and assists have been nerfed so… it will be interesting to see how the mixups work. It may well be that the tag crossup actually becomes the main line linear mixup, like tick throwing is in oldschool streetfighter games.
