MvC3 Actual Balance/Potential Tiers Discussion

[DevilJin_01]

I don’t think you’re taking the mind game rotations into consideration.

first of all, zero can only counter throw attempts with buster if you try to throw zero on his startup of H. When you approach that layer, you give zero the advantage because he can react before he dedicates. What eventually ends up happening is that players stop throwing zero during the start up frames of J.h because of the buster. So now zero gets to descend freely and NO zero player can resist that button EVERY time and that’s when throws enter the equation for counters

Yeah…the whole notion is pretty much countered by having an assist ready on top of things as you’re going in. With Zero you should already have all of that shit covered basically and of course an assist like Tron gives you easy mode coverage of such situations.

[xesaie]

does the UMVC buster cancel change apply to j.H as well?

[shoultzula]

Yeah…the whole notion is pretty much countered by having an assist ready on top of things as you’re going in. With Zero you should already have all of that shit covered basically and of course an assist like Tron gives you easy mode coverage of such situations.

you’re talking about an ideal situation for zero to win though, zero will never be able to use his assist like that every time because assists get baited not to mention the multitude applications of practical assists. People also use those assists for defense rather than offense and its so easy to move around that and get a layer YOU want to happen.

what happens if his assist is baited and you forced him into the air and he can’t call his helper again which does happen quite frequently?

play a team game, bait the helper, when the point character has no helper call available you use your team chemistry to your advantage and create 2v1 scenarios.

[DevilJin_01]

you’re talking about an ideal situation for zero to win though, zero will never be able to use his assist like that every time because assists get baited not to mention the multitude applications of practical assists. People also use those assists for defense rather than offense and its so easy to move around that and get a layer YOU want to happen.

what happens if his assist is baited and you forced him into the air and he can’t call his helper again which does happen quite frequently?

play a team game, bait the helper, when the point character has no helper call available you use your team chemistry to your advantage and create 2v1 scenarios.

Pretty much any of that is stuff that will be more so accounted for in Ultimate now that he can cancel buster during a bunch of specials. Right now the bigger issue with Zero is he generally just gets way too much when he hits you for how hard he is to hit. Zero will pretty much be a self 2 v 1 character by the time Ultimate comes around.

Right now…just about anything is in Zero’s favor because of the pay off when he hits you. Even if there is a counter to such situations it basically involves lowering your positioning against Zero and forcing yourself towards the corner any way.

Tron assist can very much be used for offense also. Magneto’s tri dash takes him like halfway across the screen in one jump and then you can just call Tron so you basically get an invincible DP that converts into combos while not being able to be pushed out. If anything Tron’s ability to buff offense is even better. That fact that Tron doesn’t lose health during her assist call is hilariously absurd also.

does the UMVC buster cancel change apply to j.H as well?

No, since it’s not a special move.

[Maverick8]

If they do they’re basically getting away with something that shouldn’t work. There’s just no solid reason to do it unless the character is the size of Hulk or Sentinel. The only other use would be just to have something following your teleport from max screen distance. If you do it near most of the cast when they’re crouching or wave dashing or against Wolverine doing anything…you lose. Wolverine who is another S tier is shorter than the gun even in a standing position. Doing gun to teleport against Best Friends without calling assist first is pretty much asking to get ruined. Akuma has projectile invincible assist and Wolverine’s s.L is 4 frame start up and covers a 1/3 of the screen for easy punish.

That’s why when Viscant was fighting Wolverines at Evo he wasn’t doing anything other than jump back gun + Haggar assist.

[media=youtube]Qzvbzi1Etpg[/media]

Looking even at the first minute of that video Viscant never does gun to teleport unless it’s near full screen away from Wolvie. Using the gun to teleport to cross up for a “mix up” (a bad one at that) would have gotten him killed against Wolvie. Even Viscant himself has talked about the lack of safety with gun to port against grounded characters.

I didn’t say you were wrong about it being stupid, but high level Wesker players are still doing it – including Viscant.

[FlyingVe]

But Gunshot+Assist>Teleport (especially with Magneto) is pro.

[Legend_II]

Wesker barely got nerfed, the one playing the most ultimate nerfed team ATM is probably PR Rog, I am very worried for him because he’s the type of player that screws the tier list and is likely to remain faithful to his characters. Flocker’s team got nerfed really badly too because while Zero hasn’t been nerfed his ability as a battery seems to be hit quite badly and that is going to make him not so viable in a Phoenix team.

Actually it’s a wrist slitting time for Tron players, Nerdjosh’s old team would have been completely unplayable too considering the huge, stupid She-Hulk nerfs.

You are wrong.

Dito is my friend and he’s a tier whore. At least in Marvel.

In Tekken and KOF, is another story.

[DevilJin_01]

I honestly don’t know what all the hype about the majority of the new charcters is about. There are still some older characters that I haven’t gotten around too that seem much more fun and interesting.

You better not be talking about Strange. That man has hype legs.

[Cheech_Wizard]

But Gunshot+Assist>Teleport (especially with Magneto) is pro.

Its really upsetting that this is the closest regular MVC3 will come to real keepaway and zoning. The most basic braindead strat wins even when it comes to something as complex projectile zoning and space control.

I have a somewhat ‘lame’ and keepaway playstyle using Task/Dante/Doom and I feel like I have to work twice as hard to beat a wesker using that strategy, even though my team is meant to be built for zoning.

[HavocHedgehog]

I don’t know a ton about the balance in this game of characters aside from my own 3, but I think Wesker’s teleporting is nuts.

Dante’s overpowered too, but his teleporting is fine: goes to the same spot every time. Wesker can teleport to 4(?) spots within melee range of your character, and not only that, he can teleport again from there, even if he’s airborne… I think…

The guy is just dumb >:^

[NissanZaxima]

You better not be talking about Strange. That man has hype legs.

Strange and Firebrand are the only ones so far im really looking forward to

[Danimals]

I don’t know a ton about the balance in this game of characters aside from my own 3, but I think Wesker’s teleporting is nuts.

Dante’s overpowered too, but his teleporting is fine: goes to the same spot every time. Wesker can teleport to 4(?) spots within melee range of your character, and not only that, he can teleport again from there, even if he’s airborne… I think…

The guy is just dumb >:^

Weren’t you the one saying that Zero isn’t worth complaining about and that he’s not that safe of a character?

Oh wait, every S Tier character except for your own is OP right?

[Cosmic_Castaway]

-stuff about Viper being S-tier-

Ahhh, I see we have another convert to the Church of Viper.

Now if only my Viper weren’t so FRAAAAYYYY, then I’d be happy with life.

I should probably make my own final tier list eventually for MvC3.0. Is there one that’s pretty much agreed upon atm? I haven’t seen one for like 100 pages.

[DevilJin_01]

Weren’t the one saying that Zero isn’t worth complaining about and that he’s not that safe of a character?

Oh wait, every S Tier character except for your own is OP right?

I love Dante but I have no problem admitting he’s retardo.

[Maverick8]

I love Dante but I have no problem admitting he’s retardo.

You don’t love him enough then.

[Rokmode]

I honestly don’t know what all the hype about the majority of the new charcters is about. There are still some older characters that I haven’t gotten around too that seem much more fun and interesting.

The first thing I think when I see your avatar is…

Dat Mango

[NissanZaxima]

The first thing I think when I see your avatar is…

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lexugrB3EV1qemvsro1_500.jpg

Dat Mango

Lol wow I never realized how much Mango and Dinobot look alike.

[Soviet_Afro]

Nissan, Rokmode… you are both godlike.

Concensus Tiers (in a sarcastic way) from being on point
God: Dark Phoenix
Godlike: Dante Magneto Viper Phoenix Zero Ammeterasu
Braincell killing tier: Wesker Wolverine
Doom Tier- Doom… 'Cause Doom Always Get What Doom Wants… and he wants his own damn tier

Mid-high… SHulk Storm Trish Spencer Taskmaster

The rest of the cast(specialize and be awesome that way)

Why? tier: Hsien-ko & Arthur

Assists
Mayor
Tatsu
Tron
Drones
Jam Session
Repulser Blast (too bad it comes with Iron-man)
Laser Beams (Doom or Magnus)

and that about does it…
Way to make an awesome team
Pick one or two characters from the upper mid tier on up… pair them with one of the godlike assist and learn the synergy if you want the easy road…
If you want the braincell killing good stuff… Pick Dante, Wesker, Magneto, Pick Haggar (or Tron) and Pick Phoenix so you can have godlike 5 bar-redhead insurance

[Duck_Strong]

I haven’t done a list yet so here goes (no explanations for placement, characters within a tier are placed in no particular order, I’m only considering how good they are on point):

SSS Tier

Phoenix

S Tier

Wolverine, Viper, Magneto, Zero, Dante

AA Tier

Wesker, Ammy

A Tier

She Hulk, Taskmaster, Akuma, Dormamu, Trish

There is a clear divide after A Tier. The remainder of the characters have a very hard time competing against the upper echelon.

B Tier

Doctor Doom, Spencer, Storm, X-23, Dead Pool, Felicia, Sentinel

C Tier

Thor, Jill, MODOK, Super Skrull, Ryu, Spider Man

D Tier

Iron Man, Chris, Morrigan, Cap, Tron, Hulk, Chun Li, Viewtiful Joe

Fail Tier

Haggar, Hsien Ko, Arthur, Shuma Gorath

[Danimals]

snip

I think Jill could definitely make it to A tier, but she’s definitely at least B tier.