Most of the time the second Sphere flame isn’t needed at all. A raw XF3 Sphere flame will kill a lot of the cast by itself though.
FlyingVe
13682
With most of the high tier characters, the XF damage boost is the least important thing it does, chip non withstanding.
Also, this just occurred to me, but it would be awesome, if, in UMvC3, they could do the themes like they do in smash, that way we could get music from the capcom library. If we can’t have megaman, I at least want his kick ass sound track.
From what ive seen in the umvc footage is supers no longer get massive damage boosts in xf, in fact it looks like they get only a small damage boost in both xf lvl 1 +2 which is awesome
Thanks for the quip about not knowing how to play Hsien-Ko. I guess I’ll just take those same 3000 games and throw them out the window - a good 1000 of them with her on point - just because I like to start arguments without experience first.
Way to compare her to top tier. I have no idea when I ever said she was top tier, but you really took it upon yourself to put those words in my mouth. s.H will combo into c.H which will in turn almost always allow you to combo into Launcher. Captain America can do the same with his Shield Throw, but if you’re close enough for him to combo off of it, all it takes is that first block and he’s punishable. Ryu has Taskmaster-like crouch normals, but those won’t do him any good and neither will his Tatsu against non-hit boxed normals - like I said, if they can’t get in, they can’t score a kill. Gong, never-use-it-ever-Anki Hou, and Senpu Bu are all exceptional tools to force low tier to come to you or to cover the gap over to them. She has the necessities to land a combo and win the anchor vs anchor game. She can also lame out with 3 aerial specials, move ‘I drop combos’ absurdly fast in XF3, use a teleport mix up which is viable if you haven’t tried it all game (Because it’s not safe half the time), Senpu Bu mix ups every once in a while to make them wake up and take her seriously, and so on and so forth.
I swear, half the reason everyone excepts that she is trash is because of the fact that Hsien-Ko players encourage it. Someone like Viscant comes along and says she bad for X, Y, and Z reasons and before the 3 Hsien-Ko players who make her work anyways (Just like Ray Ray opens up on MarlinPie’s Viper with Ryu) can say anything, those few players who loved Darkstalkers but hate the current rendition or use Hsien-Ko purely for gold armor come forth and start the tear flow. She is not the only person in terrible tier, she in not being used to her fullest, and she is not given credit where credit should be given. Yes she has downfalls, yes she is low tier, and yes her damage sucks. But damn. There are other things that bring her into an actual tier worth mentioning instead of leaving her stuck in her own personal fail tier just because everyone wants to glare at her shortcomings and her shortcomings only.
Something interesting is that Hsien-Ko has a lot of good tools and good range on normals, but she has no way to do damage off them. For example… s.H actually has huge range, longer than dante’s s.H but she really has nothing to do after that while most characters that have such huge hitboxes on their normals usually have a huge hitbox on their S as well. As a result, stray hits with hsien-ko normally result in nothing while other characters kill.
If you’re in XF2/3 typical launch bnb foot dive ADDF sphere flame kills off pretty much the whole cast. Throwing up a random sphere flame if Akuma or Zero is in the air will one shot kill them in XF3.
Isn’t the start up on it real slow though, giving them enough time to block or dodge it completely? I mean, I know you’re just giving a hypothetical situation, but I’m wondering if it’s actually applicable.
I’ve killed Akumas in tournaments and casuals that try to tatsu around or hover above me with beams n shit. The super is about 8 frame (which is about the same speed as Spencer’s Bionic arm) start up before it immediately appears on screen and shoots up. Even if they block it, it rains down a stream of beams that keeps you safe and keeps them from hitting you.
Video example around 2:25 of this vid. Does 830k in XF3 by itself.
[media=youtube]CoJNECzcMkw[/media]
I had to cut down your post a little to get to the meat, so I hope you don’t mind.
- Ahahahahahahahahahaha…no. Abare off of s.H is *terrible if you’re using it at any range where it’s speed and hitbox would make a difference (much like Iron Man). *c.H is *terrible. *And more than either of those things put together, her launcher is absolute goddamn TERRIBLE. I know no better way to emphasize this. It really is just that bad. Like, as bad as Iron Man’s bad. Come to think of it, these are all issues that severely hinder Iron Man, too. Huh.
- I don’t know if you’ve ever played against a decent Cap, but shield slash basically allows him to convert off of a hit from midscreen if he’s doing it right (i.e. using the j.L version) and charging stars basically eat through gongs blah blah matchup stuff that cap wins. As for Ryu…beam hyper. That is all that needs be said.
- Gong, Item toss, and pendulum. Exceptional tools. True, if what you meant to say was exceptionally *bad. *I realize that you meant as tools that force approach, but honestly, it’s Mahvel. They’re going to be approaching anyways.
FlyingVe
13691
Iron Man’s 2C isn’t a bad move at all.
Iron Man’s 5C has a very specific, unique, and important role in his game.
Iron Man’s Launcher has better range then most launchers in the game.
Neither of these matter if you actually bother to hitconfirm or control your inputs.
The whole point of using Captain America any ways is that when you use his shield slash in conjunction with assists and charging star it creates really long block strings that the opponent can’t advance guard. If you get hit by one 4 frame c.L during that you pretty much die as long as he doesn’t drop the combo. If you block all that down he’ll have another set up for left/right mix ups with assist + cartwheel 50/50 which will also probably kill you. Pretty much all he needs is the ability to self combo off his back throw or air throw which he will most likely get in Ultimate and then he’ll be able to guarantee some type of damage once he gets close. Especially if his damage stays mostly the same 700+K with one meter he’ll be a real threat in Ultimate.
If I had my way I’d just apply a nice health boost across the roster instead of changing the level three hypers. All I know is that characters do hit a bit too hard in this game.
It doesn’t help, but you shouldn’t assume that someone else isn’t proficient or half way decent with the character either. There are very few Marlinpie, Fanatiq and Viscant level players on here so we really need to get over trying to act like we are the authorities on these characters.
I’m totally willing to admit that I’m still a novice with the character if you are willing to admit that you jumped the gun earlier when you told me to toy with her nomals as if I didn’ know them at all.
I compared her to several top, high and bottom characters with a solid ground game that is relatively safe(check the list again). The problem we also have is that “s.H will combo into c.H which will in turn almost always allow you to combo into Launcher” does not always apply with her because of that short launcher and it severely hurts her already bad damage. Her normals a pretty good, but they suffer because of her launcher.
She also does have a decent XF3 game if only because she has been sped up and the damage is crazy like most characters.
Ah, that may be a discussion for another thread, but most people made their minds up at launch that she sucked. There is nothing that a few posters on forums can do to make it go viral the way it did when Justin used her, Thor and Chris to win a tournament and promptly dumped them afterwards. I also talk about her because people bring her up. I’ve been more than willing to talk about Morrigan here and Ammy too. I don’t just prattle on about the shortcomings of a single character who does have some interesting tech(check out the WNF archive for last night’s footage).
Sorry, I’m gonna have to call you out on this because it’s patently false. You might get that impression because you always sweep into it (which you should be doing), but Iron Man’s launcher most definitely has one of if not the worst range in the game.
- If you’re comboing s.H into c.H and then into launcher, then the only important thing about it is the fact that it’s multi-hit and therefore scales terribly. Because you have to actually be rather close in order for it to do that, compared to the where you need to be for it to hit.
2a. I dunno about you, but no competent Cap is going to right up against you when he j.L shield slashes, he’s going to have some distance from you, and he’s going to be jumping backwards. Also, I lol’d at you even considering Hsien-ko being able to counter anything with air throw.
2b. Hsien-ko with anything except XF3 isn’t a threat. Hsien-ko with no bars is just a matter of making her do something she didn’t mean to and punishing. See?
- …I don’t even know, man. Unless you’re throwing gongs and anki hous out all the time, gong doesn’t make anyone approach; barely covers your approaches; doesn’t prevent somebody from IADing, wavedashing up to you, or just superjumping around them; and it sure as hell doesn’t lock anyone down on the ground or in the air, not to mention that using it in the corner means that you first have to get someone in the corner with Hsien. Not exactly the easiest of feats.
Actually, I was talking about his abare being ass. And no, his 2C is very much a bad move. It might be usable in Ultimate, what with the ability to cancel into specials, but as it is, it’s just useless.
Not compared to Hsien Ko. LOL.
cr.H always confirms into launcher. If it doesn’t, you’re either fighting a pixie character or you didn’t get the timing right.
Iron Man’s s.H Launcher is a joke and needs to be fixed.
All I remember is doing raw launcher/S with Hsien Ko never hits anybody. It confirms a lot better off of c.H since c.H moves her towards the opponent yeah.
The general idea is to use her other normals into c.H and then launch. Which is how you should use your launchers but some characters like Wesker and Doom have launchers that are negative 1 or 2 on block that they can just mash out. Even Captain America’s launcher is only like neg 4 on block which nothing is gonna punish without XF guard cancel any way. Either way you can still call an assist to cover your S launch if it’s blocked.
The only problem with that is that c.H is…y’know, slow as ass.
