MvC3 Actual Balance/Potential Tiers Discussion

[Alidfe]

2B’s hurt box extends before the hitbox and has awful recovery, it looks good at first, but it really isn’t. Her jumping L is her best jumpin in my opinion.

It’s almost like Capcom thinks Viper wouldn’t be Viper without the shitty cr.MK

[FlyingVe]

jA is also a great instant overhead, and jC is amazing for Fuzzy guard stuff.

Pretty much whenever I’m jumping in and it will likely be my hitbox vs theirs, I tend to favor jA.

[EmblemLord]

Vergil why do your normals hit behind you even on the ground from half screen away?

Vergil: NOW I’M MOTIVATED!!!

I wanna sex this char so damn much. Vergil for top tier smh.

[Mustachio]

No.

Just…no. Especially considering she doesn’t have anything that could really be called resets or mixups, considering how epically slow she is. There is no way that she’s not the worst character in the game, really.

Sorry to tell you, but none of the low tier have good resets or mixups - that’s essentially 80% of the reason they’re low tier to begin with. However, there’s one thing she has that a lot of the low tier lack, and that’s a mother****ing air dash. Jump cancel that shit and every single low tier character is going to complain complain complain that they got stuck against the ‘shittiest’ character in the game and can’t find a way in. Get tricky with teleport dash as well as Senpu Bu cross ups and sooner or later you’ll be in. Pull off a simple magic series continuation, drop a Tenrai Ha Balls, Chiretou Blades once you get the chance, X-Factor cancel and combo off that shit again. Boom, dead character, you win the game of unintentional low tier anchor vs low tier anchor.

[details=Spoiler]The fact that I can’t kill someone in a single combo is a good thing. More characters need to be reigned in on the damage front. The problem is that a good normal like j.H turns solid damage(at best) into pretty shit damage in a game where not killing high tier characters means death.

Also, the argument about getting that hit first doesn’t apply to Hsien-Ko. Getting the first hit is a matter of knowing the matchup and being insanely lucky. Whether or not you will hit again depends on how laughably bad your opponent is and how little matchup experience they have against her.

Oh, and don’t you even dare to put Ryu in the same category as her. He has a level 3, good damage, a solid dash, a great entry tool from the air, a BEAM HYPER(this single thing alone almost guarantees a bump in tier placement) that has different directions/ground bounces/OTGs as well, a solid projectile game, great DHC/THC options and great XF bonuses.[/details]

I agree with you about the damage.

Getting the first hit with her is as hard as getting the first hit with anyone in low tier, so quit trying to pretend everyone on her level has an easier time doing it. Captain America throws his shield and hopes it hits, Ryu spams Tatsu L and hopes it hits, Thor spams Elbow dive and hopes it hits, Haggar spams pipe and hopes it hits, etc etc etc etc etc.

I’m not even going to discuss the Ryu comparison until you sit down and toy with Hsien-Ko’s normals. Some of them are just outright stupid.

[Chrisis]

I disagree on all the examples you gave Mustachio. Captain has cartwheel resets along with 1 millionish damage combos, Ryu has low to the ground high and low unblockable resets, Thor’s resets are numerous and good but assume that he’s actually started what he wanted to do in the first place, Timothy put out a video of a lot of good Haggar resets that were placed on Option Select and posted on SRK’s front page.

[ironboy89]

I don’t understand how Wekser or Wolverine do more damage than Hulk, and Hulk doesn’t have a teleport, or any good way to mix up.

I’m pretty sure their damage ratio isn’t as much as say…Hulk, Thor, and Sent. Hulk with X-factor deals the most possible damage in the game. You just don’t see much it because Hulk can’t do shit with it . X-factor/DHC glitch is so stupid that Wesker/Wolverine’s bnbs skyrocket because of the dumb damage scaling… Fun Fact: Wolverine could actually kill Week 1 Sent in level 1 x-factor… by a single throw.

[Noble_Cactus]

Not to mention Cap will have an easier time getting in with his new Cartwheel and Ryu has his “new” overhead. Meanwhile, Hsien-Ko… Err, nevermind. We know the story all too well. As far as low-tiers go, you can talk about Arthur, maybe Joe.

Do you guys think Hulk might make a decent-ish anchor with the new speed boost in XF? He still lacks moves that grant him much mobility, but at least he’s faster than what he was without XF.

[Mustachio]

I disagree on all the examples you gave Mustachio. Captain has cartwheel resets along with 1 millionish damage combos, Ryu has low to the ground high and low unblockable resets, Thor’s resets are numerous and good but assume that he’s actually started what he wanted to do in the first place, Timothy put out a video of a lot of good Haggar resets that were placed on Option Select and posted on SRK’s front page.

We’re basing this upon AceKillah’s tier list which is more of a solo OTG assist kind of ordeal, hence 1v1 (Anchor vs Anchor? Might as well as, you all have beaten tiers to death concerning 3v3). Resets involve hitting someone, which alone, Ryu, Captain, and Thor can’t do quite too well.

If we weren’t basing this upon AceKillah’s tier list I’d agree with you completely, but we’re not, so I’m sorry to say, but I disagree with you for disagreeing with me.

[Edit] Concering the resets, I’m assuming that’s with ‘x’ assist? That somewhat defeats the purpose of our meaningless discussion. Gimmie some of that non-comboable unless you blow X-Factor Hsien-Ko Command Grab, YEAH.

I forgot Thor had a fly and an air dash… I’m a dumbass… Doesn’t make Thor’s helmet any less stupid.

[SteelyHawke]

Getting the first hit with her is as hard as getting the first hit with anyone in low tier, so quit trying to pretend everyone on her level has an easier time doing it. Captain America throws his shield and hopes it hits, Ryu spams Tatsu L and hopes it hits, Thor spams Elbow dive and hopes it hits, Haggar spams pipe and hopes it hits, etc etc etc etc etc.

The difference with those guys is that Cap can do his thing from a distance, Ryu can use L tatsu safely if he plays smart and Haggar’s pipe groundbounces long enough that even trading hits with him could mean losing 500k health.

I’m not even going to discuss the Ryu comparison until you sit down and toy with Hsien-Ko’s normals. Some of them are just outright stupid.

I’ve played about three thousand matches with my team(not trying to be smug, but I’m not about to get schooled by someone who thinks that they know the character) and I know the ins and out of most of their attacks. Part of why she is low tier is the fact that several of her normals are good, not exceptional ones. Taskmaster beats her out in the normals department, Magneto can beat her out quite frequently, Sentinel can eat her alive if I don’t use j.H quick enough, Skrull can command grab me if I use her normals recklessly, DP has phantom limbs with projectiles and the list goes on and on.

Her normals are good, but they are nothing special. This is especially true because it’s hard to take advantage of the ones that build a lot of space. Using s.H against Hulk and Sent can work very nicely, but you need to cr.H to launch and her launcher is so short that you can miss your target easily. That is a far cry from other characters that can connect their normals from a distance(Wesker, Sent, Taskmaster, Wolverine, Dante, Tron, Captain America, Shuma, Spencer, Ammy, Zero, She Hulk, etc) easily.

She is solid in the normals department because of the range on her launcher. She has tons of unexplored potential that Capcom has been ignoring though.

[Dont_Jump]

Dont Jump? More like Dont Post…

I don’t think I need to explain why “It doesn’t matter that everything Dante does is better because if someone forgets to block Sentinel does decent damage” is beyond retarded. Nevermind that the stuff you’re saying is too hard to be practical isn’t even very hard to begin with.( and nevermind all the other questionable placements).

Right. Because the little fact that Yun and Fei are much stronger characters is utterly irrelevant, right? Or are you going to tell me Viper is really ass in AE too?

Vipers really stupid good in AE. Shes easily top three or four. You should also learn how to read because that is not what i said. Execution matters these days in terms of high level gaming. It used to be that tech skill was rewarded but these days with games like SSF4 AE, brawl, MVC3, SF X T, etc and then compare them to SF 3, mvc2, smash melee, etc doing stupid easy mode simple stuff wins now.

How hard is it to play yun? Fei? Meta Knight? Wolverine? Wesker?

And yeah, the evidence is clear because all these characters dominate tournaments where as Dantes, magnetos, dooms, and Spencers all do less well. Just take a look at Evo and tell me how many people used sent, wolverine, akuma, and Phoenix. They are easy, super effective, and are brain dead. Thats what wins these days. Being technical and using characters with god like options and low health isnt as effective.

[KingHippo42]

Shut your mouth, don’t bring your ungodly stupidity to the Marvel boards too.

BTW, any of the Viper heads around here, does she benefit really amazingly off of Haggar assist as well? Can she still run a death combo off of an untechable knockdown?

[Din0]

Apparently Wesker can teleport through Gravity Squeeze.

There is no God.

[SaltyKracka]

Apparently Wesker can teleport through Gravity Squeeze.

There is no God.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If they nerfed squeebge that will be the absolute cherry on top of my UMvC3 sundae.

[Danimals]

Shut your mouth, don’t bring your ungodly stupidity to the Marvel boards too.

BTW, any of the Viper heads around here, does she benefit really amazingly off of Haggar assist as well? Can she still run a death combo off of an untechable knockdown?

I don’t use Viper, but trust me she can. Oh god, she really really can…

[gottnoskill]

Shut your mouth, don’t bring your ungodly stupidity to the Marvel boards too.

BTW, any of the Viper heads around here, does she benefit really amazingly off of Haggar assist as well? Can she still run a death combo off of an untechable knockdown?

Haggar assist is so stupid for her. I’ve never tried to see how good her damage is off the haggar, but i’m pretty sure it can rock around 1 million damage. I don’t know if i can kill the 1.2M characters. I know Chrisis use to use Haggar assist he could probably get more precise.

[Noble_Cactus]

How many frames of invincibility does Jill’s Machinegun Spray hyper have? Taking a quick break from the stream to ask. Also, she has some nice crossups, it seems.

And shoutouts to LL.ND.Good Hsien-Ko mixup stuff. Made a couple mistakes that could’ve cost him, but he’s pulling through so far.

[Danimals]

How many frames of invincibility does Jill’s Machinegun Spray hyper have? Taking a quick break from the stream to ask. Also, she has some nice crossups, it seems.

And shoutouts to LL.ND.Good Hsien-Ko mixup stuff. Made a couple mistakes that could’ve cost him, but he’s pulling through so far.

20 frames startup invincibility. I’ve played the guy who’s probably the best Jill in the world right now and I can assure you that her crossups are a lot more than nice, lol.

[Noble_Cactus]

20 frames startup invincibility. I’ve played the guy who’s probably the best Jill in the world right now and I can assure you that her crossups are a lot more than nice, lol.

Damn.

Just damn.

Maybe there’s potential in those crossups in the future… just as long as she can actually manage to get in in Ultimate (they did say she’s being completely reworked). I honestly know barely anything about Jill.

[KingHippo42]

Jill’s high low game is pretty nuts. She has her issues, but can be quite the reset machine when played around with.

[Mallrat]

Shut your mouth, don’t bring your ungodly stupidity to the Marvel boards too.

BTW, any of the Viper heads around here, does she benefit really amazingly off of Haggar assist as well? Can she still run a death combo off of an untechable knockdown?

Viper/Haggar is probably scarier then Dante/Haggar, believe it or not.