16

This is a ripe thread for discussion.

I used to be the biggest Commando whore, but recently I have been starting to use Cyclops even on teams that I normally use Commando on (like Doom/BH and Sentinel/Cable).

Some good reasons to pick Cyclops over Commando:

  • Obvious ones (better on point, comes out instantly, etc.)
  • Hit/block-stun. As you mentioned, Cyke just keeps them blocking a lot longer than Commando.
  • Cyclops gets in everyone’s way. He moves out and almost always lands in front of the opponent to impede their movement, unlike, say, Cammy who usually ends up behind YOU, or Commando who just stays there.
  • Commando has problems with Doom assist. Not necessarily gets owned by it - if you keep your distance, Commando can still function - but if you get trapped then Commando is going to be thoroughly useless to you and you risk losing a lead fast.
  • I think Cyclops is better on flying Sentinel than Commando. This goes against conventional wisdom, but as I said before, Cyclops gets more in the way. Sentinel has to DODGE more, and Cyclops is usually sent right in the position Sentinel would have to be to short kick you in the face. You can call Cyclops and be in a better position to actually HIT Sentinel, and that’s always good.
  • Cyclops makes tactics easier. Storm/Commando can really hurt assists off standing RH plus Commando, but you have to wait to do hailstorm or else most of hail will miss. With Storm/Cyke, whatever is hit with Cyclops can and should get hailed.
  • Cyclops tends to help teams and characters more than Commando. Storm/Sent/Commando gets easy damage, for sure - but the 100% combo with Cyke in 3rd is MUCH easier (you don’t need to fast fly at all). Cable/Cyke is as good as it ever was because of Cyclops’ ability to impede forward movement and damage potential off connected Cyke over Commando’s raw damage. BH/Cyke actually gets to hurt Cable, and you get free tags off low short (which means you don’t have to burn meter bringing your second guy in).

Commando has the benefit of pure damage and space control, and I grant those are really good things. But Cyclops on a whole is more versatile AND easier in general, and I consider it to be the best anti-air assist in the game. But that’s just MY opinion.

17

I agree with everything u said except this, cuz IMO capcom is hella annoying to fly from an opponent. I usually can out manuver Cyke (maybe I can get hit with the Optic Bullet though).:stuck_out_tongue:

18

That’s the point, you have to countermaneuver it so I have an easier time popping up and getting a chance to hit you :slight_smile:

19

well I have to disagree with you on that one too, Dasrik:

Sentinel gets hit by cyke, but almost never more than 1 hit! And thats the either the optic bullet, or the last hit of the gene splice itself.

Either of those hits do about 5 damage each, and only give sentinel unfly mode so he wont get hit next time.

Sentinel is never on the level where he is right in front of you so that he’ll get hit with all of the gene splice, or by the first hit, which allows you to AHVB upon reaction. His LK range is much further than this, and if cyke comes out as he does a fly lk, it will trade, and no AHVB for you, cause sentinel is bouced too high.

I have to go for now but I’ll be back later to discus this some more, as I know you will want to =)

~peace!

20

:eek: Shit, I have been using this as my main way of bringing in Cable and I thought it was like 99% safe. Fuck, I am such a fool.

What is a safe way to tag Cable in?

21

Counter in Cable’s scimitar and AHVB as soon as you’re off the ground. Timing takes practice, however.

22

Well my point is not for Cyclops to hit. I want you to dodge it so I have room to superjump up from your stomp attempt and hit you with something. I’m still working on the execution for this tactic, but the trick is to get Sent in the position where if he tries to retaliate he’ll get hit by the bullet and you can do something to him. 'Course, this only works if Sentinel flies BACK to evade, but if he flies forward you can dash and jump.

23

Oh I see… sounds interesting, I’m gonna have to try that.

The thing is, though, that people can anticipate when an aaa is gonna come out, so they unfly accordingly… still sounds cool, I’ma test it =)

~peace!

24

What are some other top tier AA assists and what general kind of teams to they go with.

I know I see a lot of Psylocke with Magneto teams since she helps him combo into his infinites.

25

The current trend for both California and East coast players these days seems to be Captain Commando.

The nov 23 SHGL vids show a helluva lot of Captain commandoes compared to Cyclops.

And the recent Nec3 results show a helluva lot more Captain Commandoes then Cyke.

mikeC: The only other popular toptier assist is psylocke who goes mainly with Magneto/storm. Excellent combo setups, excellent against rushdown.

Cammy was popular on the east coast but results show they’re starting to lean more towards Commando these days.

26

Cammy is about fallen off the charts these days. No one really uses her anymore except for Justin occaisionally.

Her downsides are obvious, she bounces off shit, can’t hit both assist and point, doesn’t go all the way up, and also is hard to combo off of.

Storm and Sent have really easy assist killers with commando… Just knock the assist up with a corridor, then HSF or hail them on the way down… works with AHVB too.

but cyke is tight. Cyke also has counter->Super, which is pretty damn good. Cyke also is a really good point character, and he loves using doom assist.

Other good AAA’s

Psy-Covers back and front, super combo friendly.

Ken- Completely plows through everything.

Sonson-Instant startup, great recovery. Can do Counter-> Giant Pole Super.

Colossus- Big damage, absorbs projectiles, good flight arc. Beats commando.

Jin-Covers both sides, completely invincible, good against magneto.

Guile-Covers 45 degree angle from character. Good against flying sentinel.

Chun Li- Not much invincibillity (or any), but she keeps them up in the air for a LONG ASS time, making in brain dead to do a hail or Inferno->HOD.

Iron Man/War Machine- Weird Range, Long lasting, and does awesome damage. Good combo starter. NOt much invincibility, and requires alot of protection.

Cable-Trades with almost everything, spear goes way up there. CAHVB.

That’s about it.

27

Renegade: Some notes:

I don’t like Jin anymore. He doesn’t hit from all sides. He will not hit anything directly behind him, which means he loses any effectiveness I thought he might have had against Doom trapping. Just about everything I had used him before to protect against is covered by Sentinel drones now, so Jin has no place on my teams.

Guile’s angle is not exactly 45 degrees. More like 60 or something. Charlie, on the other hand, IS 45 degrees, but his assist has other problems (almost every character can crouch right under it).

IM/WM assist both do the same damage. Iron Man’s assist is better, though, because it does less hits (and thus scales damage less in a combo).

I’m a very big fan of Ryu AA. Sick hitbox and damage and sends them way up there.

28

…

yeah ironman’s aaa is annoying as hell… stays there for the longest time… can anything stop sakura? in terms of assist? i mean when she does her uppercut assist and runs at u and pretty much auto blocks everything comin to her

29

for some reason jin’s AA actually got stuffed by Doom i think it was, unless of course Jin’s AA isn’t instnat? also this was with doom in front of him…i thought Jin’s AA was invincible though

also Das, any reason to choose Ryu over Ken for AA? i mean ken’s dp seems obviously better…its more invincible (not by much since ryu’s AA is underrated priority wise), better range horizontally…i guess better DHCs would make ryu a better a better partner…? also ken’s Shinpuujinryuakuee->DHC->HSF always surprises the opponent for some reason…

30

w00t. Ryu.

AAA is good. Invincibility at startup, blah blah… Has a few issues, and the commonly accepted AAAs are usually better (Cyke, Commando Psy), but he’s preetty good. Dasrik- what’d you mean about the hitbox?

31

forgot to mention something about capcom.

everytime you hit the guy, you get to tag on a capcom assist for an extra 10% damage. That’s nothing to sneeze at.

32

I am too. He can give Mag/Storm rushdown problems with judicious use. OKish on point, thanks mostly to TK Shinkuu Hadoken.

Renegade’s post sums up everything pretty nicely.

[EDIT: Ryu’s AA yields a FAR better team super than Ken AA for my purposes. That’s reason enough for me; that means a fair amount for my usual team chemistry, may not for others…]

-Jugg

33

…

Regular viper beams hit Sakura out of her uppercut instantly. I’m not too sure on other characters with beams (Ironman, etc) but Cable can stop Sakura’s assist for sure.

She stops drones though!

34

Jin’s explosions actually count as projectiles. Doom’s rocks nullify the explosions, and when Jin stops glowing white he gets hit. I forgot about this, but this is yet another reason I stopped using Jin. He’s pointless.

Ken has some plusses, but none that are really that important in real matches. His invincibility isn’t the reason Ken (supposedly) does good on Strider/Doom, it’s that whatever Ken connects with goes sky high (and leaves Strider without an assist for a long time). That assist-punishing is the sole quality that Ken has that’s relevant. His invincibility isn’t, because the last hit of Ken’s DP does a measly 3 points of damage (which means I can just not care about getting hit by it when spamming photons or demons) whereas Ryu’s does 18 points in the air. And horizontally, Ryu’s hitbox is AMAZINGLY bigger than Ken’s (he hits about half a character width in front of him).

They do share some minuses, though, the most important being that they land in shitty locations which make it rather easy for them to get punished if blocked.

Oh. Ryu’s TK shinkuu hadouken is nice, but it’s not what makes him good on point. It’s how good he can advance with jump fierce xx hurricane kick (all shotos can do this) and the good annoyance factor that TK fireballs have (only Ryu can really do this).

35

Eh, I guess I view it the exact opposite; those other 2 aspects you mention certainly have use, but don’t strike me as the absolute trump cards Ryu holds. On the other hand, TK shinkuu hadouken really seems to set Ryu apart as the shoto that can actually halfway protect whoever he calls.

And sure, all these things we speak of can get you killed, but I’m sure everybody realizes were talking Ryu here & not Cable.

My main sparring partner has been on a Team Shoto kick, and I find that as long as I don’t get baited & burned by Ryu, I do fine. The other two aren’t nearly as troublesome to deal with, largely because Ken/Akuma aren’t as effective once you get past half-screen (more so Ken). That’s my personal experience, anyway…

(So :p. j/k)

-Jugg