I would say MvC too.
VF. Easily.
VF4, VF5, VF2… hell VF3 as well! >:/
ST and several others go down on the list for me because of the whole tier/balancing issue. In VF you can pick any character and it will never be an uphill battle no matter who your opponent is. Counterpick is a stupid concept.
None of this is necessarily indicative of skill. Just sayin’.
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Mvc2. Even though other games have 1 hit kill, the addition of assists make the game very complicated. Positioning, execution, mind games everything that makes a good fighter happens VERY fast and if you get glanced once, PEACE.
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GG\kof 2k2. I’ve been playing GG on and off for a while, dope game, high level execution depending on the character with a unique engine. I personally can’t decide though since kof 2k2 is SUPER FUCKING TECHNICAL. There’s a reason why its popular world wide.
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VF incarnations. I put the 2d ones over VF simply because of the mixups and speed. VF can get fast but to my knowledge, there aren’t many low big life combo’s that are pretty common in the 2d games. VF does have an INSANE amount of execution behind it. To bad it gets underplayed in the states. I’m very impressed with the balance of this game. If the worst player in the game wins nationals occasionally, how bad can the game be?
I like mvc2 over every other game because of the sheer mental power it takes TO NOT DIE. All the other games are multi KD games. You usually have several chances to make up for a mistake as opposed to mvc2 which only allows 1 mistake @ high level.
Please don’t put kof2k2 on the same level of GG…kof max combos are average in terms of difficulty and combos aside, I wouldn’t call it very technical. GG should probably win as the most technical game, though I’m hearing a lot about Fate Unlimited Codes, though I haven’t played it yet to really know.
Melty Blood is a good candidate too, far surpassing kof.
I sat down with a buddy who plays smash a while ago and it took me under 5 minutes to learn how to L cancel and wave dash. I never bothered with shine smashing because if I was going to pick up the game, I was playing Marth most likely.
Yup. No worries.
Very well said.
I’m just going to throw this out as an opinion based on personal experience so please don’t get upset if you disagree but I’m going to say Guilty Gear.
Anytime you need to practice for 50-100 hours just to get 1 thing down to the point you can pull it off in a real match. (even then a 100% of the time ration is next to impossible) I would say it requires quite a bit of skill.
Is there any 1 action (not a full combo, just 1 small portion of it) in Marvel or VF that requires that kind of determination and practice to pull off? atleast 50-100 hours just to be able to do it on a slightly consistent basis?
Now the above is a reference to I-No’s jump installed chemical love airdash but the thing is that is only the beginning of her execution requirements. Learning how to cancel a throw into a negative edge p-dive* can easily take another 100+ hours and beyond execution issues being able to compete against a cast of characters who each have their own form of gameplay and strategy requires a huge of amount of mental skill.
I’m only using I-No because I play her and can make specific reference but I know that other GG characters are in the same boat. This hasn’t even broke skin on the game’s universal mechanics. I mean you have Faultless Defense, Instant Block, Slashback, Dead Angel, Air Blocking, Low Blocking, High blocking and those are just your defensive options.
*keep in mind on paper that this action is a simple TK 236 input.
The argument against it is that its a bad skill, a ridiculous diversion that a fighting game doesn’t need to test. But there’s no doubt that its a skill and it puts a gigantic wall between experienced and inexperienced players before you even get down to playing the game.
I agree.
Dark Vincent: I really do wish we had gotten VF4 FT. Besides this issue it would also prove that the peak of a balanced game is still fun; ie. a game needs not to be broken or unbalanced to be a exhilarating experience.
bucklemyshoe: I do agree that the execution barrier in many games is a part of skill, but only a part. I consider GGXX a great game with skill gaps but not just because of execution (like me and Dizzy’s icespike FRC which I only get 40% of the time).
I think if the only aspect a game had to offer was difficult inputs and didn’t emphasize on other parts of the metagame, it is very flawed indeed. On the other hand, inputs, combos and canceling should have some difficulty to them, otherwise you end up being able to do shit at random by mashing like DOA, or you have people able to perform comparable damage to experienced players, making the skill gap smaller and too subtle.
A firm believer in the fact that if I play a game longer than someone, take it seriously, do research and know how core system and metagame works i should be at varying levels of raping the shit out of them.
This is why DOA fails, and why Tekken fails at lower levels of play. I especially hate DOA in this respect because mashing somehow allows peeps the best blockstrings and mix-ups ever known. The stupid input system and too-similar button sensitive scheme is mostly to blame for this. Also the stagger system, and the fact many moves that are good, should be at least throw-counterable like VF, but aren’t, so one would expect an opening but instead the game leaves the active window too open, meaning the masher can continue. Kind of shame really, because if they fixed a lot of shit, revamped some stuff I could see the game being a lot better and considered for serious play. A shame then, those expansive movelists have to go to waste…
You can get a cabinet and put FT in it. There are places outside of Japan that have 4FT for arcade use and for private collection.
Virtua Fighter
Yeah, but most VFs, be it EVO Ver. B or even vanilla 5 Ver. B, are far more balanced than other fighters. And yeah, to me a balanced game is way more fun than a broken or unbalanced game. First because I can choose whatever character I damn well please and not fear of feeling “handicapped” when facing certain opponents. Second because insane infinite combos may be flashy and all, but just prove you have quick fingers and muscle memory. That’s a skill yeah, but to be good at VF you gotta have more than execution. and… lol I don’t know what else to say, VF is art. :rock:
Not that I don’t like other FGs. I’m way better at SF than I am on VF, but I gotta give 'em credit where credit is due.
I think my list would go something like this. (please note I’m leaving VF out because I don’t play it and can’t give it an accurate placement)
Very close to each other…
Guilty Gear
3rd Strike
MvC2 (I honestly believe that the mental skill involved in 3S outweighs the long learning process involved with Marvel. You’re given fewer possibilities and players are more focused on strategy against each character)
After that…
Super Turbo
KOF
Arcana Heart
HNK
Last Blade
Samurai Showdown
Melty Blood
Shaq Fu did require some skill to play…
But in terms of trying to master a game I’d set Guilty Gear, Melty Blood, and 3s at the top as the most difficult
There’s a shitload of stuff in Marvel.
People who have been playing for thousands (1000+ > 100) of hours still can’t ahvb out of hsf and refly/unfly consistently, and that’s just the basic stuff. Unlike other games, in Marvel you have to be consistently good.
Not like 3S where you get an easy parry into textbook combo into a free win just like Daigo moment. Plus, in 3S you only have to learn one character, in Marvel, you need to learn 3 characters.
Also in Marvel, when opponents use assists such as drones or have any blockable shit on screen, you can suki cancel, which is beyond this thread.
Vampire savior,Guilty Gear and Virtua Fighter
I definitely wouldn’t put my self in a position to say what the most skilled fighting game is but,
I’m going to put my self in a position to say what the most skilled fighting game is.
But seriously I’ve only played fighting games for 3 years, this is also only off the games I’ve played.
- GG:AC
- third strike
- smash melee
- sf4
- brawl
And I play sf4 and I’m a huge “advocate” for lack of better words(more like I don’t even know what the word means it just sounds right), of skill, but a bigger “advocate” of the community, sadly I couldn’t support a community that played a game like brawl.
sounds like jojos to me.
Mahvel
SSBM
VF
GGAC
ST