Terios
4561
While I mostly agree with that I do have to say just because he thinks Juri is strong doesn’t mean he thinks she’s stronger than Cammy. For 25k I’d totally go Cammy if it gave me the best chance of success. Also he can say “high tier” but I disagree with his definition of high tier.
His tier list as of February.
That’s 15-19th. If that’s high tier then yeah. Maybe she’s high tier. I’d consider like 1-5th top 6-12th high 13-24th mid 25th-30th low and 31-39 bottom give or take. Imo Juri be straight middlin’ yo.
Neclord
4562
I forgot that most of the people here on srk have more knowledge about the game than Alioune. Sry about that. :3
Now you seem to be catching on :3
Disagree with that tier list.
here’s my tier list.
All divekick/aerial pressure characters strong against charge characters. But weak against characters with good reversals.
All charge characters strong against characters that are slow low mobility and don’t have much reach in their pokes. Weak against divekickers aerial mix up pressure.
All grapplers strong against low mobility characters, slow wake uppers and rushdown characters, weak against zoners/fireball characters.
All rushdown characters strong against everyone except grapplers. murdered by grabbers.
All shotos strong against grapplers and charge characters. Weak against rushdowners with high mobility.
That’s all I know. Its all I need to know.
Character tiers are interchangeable due to category match ups.
Counterpicking is necessary in this game. Focus/parry+Ultra comeback+herp derp special moves+bad or worse normals compared to prior SF games make counterpicking your only hope to progress in a tournament into the higher brackets.
Too many system factors to not be constantly interchanging the tiers.
A very well balanced game…but only due to too many horrid match ups occurring. Where one character can’t do shit against another character. Like landslide vs uphill battle horrid match ups.
Therefore,
Not counterpicking isn’t an option.
Coz tier lists are meaningless in this game.
Thank you.
Terios
4565
Not my tier list. Alioune’s.
i’ll give you a few examples by what I mean…in case you don’t understand what I’m trying to express here with my opinion.
Juri vs Gief 5.5:4.5
Juri(U2) vs Gief(U1) 7:3
Juri(U2) vs Gief(U2) 5:5
Juri(U1) vs Gief(U1) 4:6
Juri(U1) vs Gief(U2) 2:8
and all that changed was their ultras. =P
Normally against Gief, picking Juri, a shoto, or Guile/Dee Jay would be the option.
But against Gief with U2 I would counterpick using Vega even though I normally would never do that if Gief has ultra 1.
I would feel more comfortable sticking to the ground at all times and just footsie poke him to death with one button. Vega’s Far stand hk roundhouse which murders him like no other character’s button in the entire game.
But only a U2 Gief.
Never really a U1 Gief would I pick Vega in that face off.
or
Ryu vs Gief 6:4
Ryu(U2) vs Gief(U1) 5:5
Ryu(U2) vs Gief(U2) 4:6
Ryu(U1) vs Gief(U1) 7:3
Ryu(U1) vs Gief(U2) 6:4
factor in some ryu fadc dp pressure on Gief wake up and how Gief responds to that Focus/parry cancellation that doesn’t happen in other SF games will further change the numbers a bit
Too many variables on the same theme.
Unpredictable Variables Too Stronk in SF4!
Any footage of Alioune’s Juri?
Yeah because why would anyone question the mighty alioune.
Here’s the vid: Starts at 12:30
Yes, Kbrad wasn’t his usual self (dropping combos, lack of matchup knowledge, getting hit by a lot of zoning etc)
I still thought alioune played really well even if he did make some mistakes (dropped combos, no combos after divekick, interesting neutral decisions etc.), but you have to keep in mind they were playing for $5000 on a national stage! I would be super nervous and fuck up a lot of stuff too.
Just because a top player believes something, doesn’t mean it is automatically right. I mean PIE Zeus believes that Vega is the best character in the game and has no match up worse than 5-5. But who is to say he’s right or wrong?
Alioune may be correct for all we know that Juri is indeed high tier, but without justification it is very easy to question him. I’ve been playing the character for 2+ years now and I’m one of the better Juri’s out there and I still don’t know who what tier she is.
Some days I feel like she really is high tier because of all of the tools she has and because she is so versatile, and other days I feel that she is mostly gimmicks and gets by on lack of matchup knowledge and is actually much lower in the tier list.
Its more taking issues with people just going “RAWR what does alioune know”. It’s his opinion, hes a very established player of setups and tech(dat yang/cammy) so people just going all nonsense can seem silly. Questions may be raised at what he says ofcourse, but he still went vs a well known very accomplished Cammy player(Do I need to remind people what people think of Cammy? Naw Im probably good without) and showed she could hang.
also when I look at that list I see Juri hogging the 3rd spot, but thats my silly way of looking at things :3
lol, I know I know. I gave your post a disagree. sorry. trying to disagree with the image posted.
edit:
Ah, the magic of being able to turn a previous “disagree” to a “insightful” with a tap of a button.
will the wonders of science never cease?
now if only the damn website would stop signing me out every time switch pages 
Against Deejay, try to play the fireball game from a little outside his slide range. As someone else once told me, make Deejay come to you. Be ready to anti-air his jumpins, which are either going to be that stupid knee move (use cr. MP) or maybe an attempted crossup (use cr. HP). Watch your toes, but also be careful of throwing out low pokes and low fireballs because he can dread kick right through. Only jump if a) he has no down charge, or b) you knock him down AND have a 4-frame safejump. Other than that your job is to stay just outside his effective range and frustrate the hell out of him. Either ultra could work, I go with U1, just beware his ex reversals.
For Evil Ryu… I dunno. Maximize your damage, punish any fireball attempt, and try to stay away from his divekick.
Triox
4574
DialUpSlim told me “stay away and focus fireballs until you get ultra 1, then activate and RTSD”.
jebop
4575
Alioune is a scientist. DO NOT QUESTION A SCIENTIST!
Yunno what I was just thinking?
guess.
lol, well anyway.
Since you can’t…
I was thinking…
You know what Juri needs?
A new Ultra 1.
Hear me out before you start leveling all the WTFs at me.
See, I was thinking, why is the Juri vs Honda match up so very bad.
And how can it improve? Or better stated, how can Juri get buffed. Not OP buff, just buffed enough where something like a bad match up like Honda’s will be more evened out.
Because when you think about.
When you really really think about it…why is this match up so bad for us?
When she has zoning tools(fireballs) the match up should be in our favor, not landslide victory for Honda.
I mean, Juri can zone like the other fireball characters yet loses badly to a character that has nothing but difficulties beating the other fireball characters?
Really Capcom?
seriously?
really?
oh really?
I mean c’mon now people! you don’t see something very wrong with this equation?
Obviously something went wrong with Juri’s design if she can’t beat a character every other fireball character can easily beat.
so…my proposal.
in SF5 give Juri a new ultra 1.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand make that ultra 1 something that is a fast horizontal moving strike. Specifically a flurry of kicks.
Coz she is TaeKwonDo
What most of us have forgotten.
Since her style doesn’t even match up to that martial arts style.
Well done Capcom.sarcasm
And they wonder why Koreans don’t even play her and play Sagat instead -_-
I digress.anywho,…
Either something like KoF’s Kim super or like B.Jenet’s super
Something fast enough to punish something like Honda’s headbutt recovery.
at 1:50
I stress that it must be horizontal moving and that is fast enough to punish the recovery of certain moves.
I think that would definitely balance her out.
As for Feng Shui, turn it into her super, sorta like Yun/Yang super.
Personally, even though I never use it(I’m a big Kaisen guy) U1 is good and great at what it does.
WTF.
Sorry couldn’t help myself, no worries, I always listen to a full argument, Unless something at the start makes me run for the hills :3
But she doesn’t. I know you know that she doesn’t. The variation in how she does is exactly what Honda can make use of, especially in the absence of a 3f invincible DP to keep Honda who justifiably has some of the best jumpin normals in the game. We can beat them, but not as simple as a true SRK can.
At this point I realise I shouldn’t post this reply till 2020. Too soon, far too soon. Well, thanks to UMVC3 I can’t even blame you:3
I disagree only to an extent(as I think u1 is fine as it is). I would say, give Kaisen Dankairaku and Air version inspired by her divekicks, like how Oni has 3 different u1s, Sakura has 2 U2s, sam as Blanka. I would find that far more appropiate for our main girl.
Speak for yourself :3
We have plenty of things that are that. It’s the move far enough forward one that’s an issue(Heck Pinwheel can even punish heavy headbutt, though only if its done point blank and what Honda is silly enough for that :3). Though if he ever has 150(it does either 180 or 240 on him) or so HP left you can always use Super to punish all of his headbutts. Which brings me to another alt suggestion. have MK Super move forward more, maybe even allow that version to be 5f or so. That should satisfy a lot of punishes in the game. Or another alt is just have all pinwheels start faster and move forward a little more, they already suffer punishable on block. Maybe only EX to limit silliness.
Once again, U1 and Super are quite fine as they are.
yeah you’re right. just give U2 the ability to have two different versions. the vertical and horizontal. sorta like blanka’s U2. one version is an anti-air and other horizontal(grounded).
Actually in Ultra I think the Honda match will be close to even (assuming things don’t change too much). She will be able to effectively anti-air with ex pinwheel forcing Honda to respect Juri’s zoning game more, Juri will be able to beat any headbutt with ex pinwheel, and ex headbutt will be punishable on block. He will still have crazy damage on his combos and outpoke Juri though.
I think in ultra there will be worse match ups to worry about.
If you guys really think that Capcom would put the effort into making a new move for any character, you must be crazy.
