4441

OK, got my roomate here to help me give specifics. He helped come up with a lot of the early Ibuki stuff from super. And he even got a message from Xian saying that he had the best Ibuki he’d played in the US. So he’s not just your average online-vortex Ibuki. Here’s what he said (he wants you to know, he’s not arguging with you):

"*Because I have 1 footsie button that actually leads to a setup: cr.mp buffered into neckbreaker (will go into to this a little more later). You can cr.mk or sweep under Ibuki’s cr.mp unless I time the read perfectly, or see you do something and react. As far as navigating around fireball, I assume you mean slide. That only works if you are throwing out mk fireball, and if you’re throwing that out in the neutral game where I can punish it, you’re doing it wrong. LK fireball all day! The only thing I can do about LK fireball is the same thing everyone can do about fireball: jump or focus with the exception of overhead. but I don’t gain anything from doing that. At the space where Juri is throwing lk fireball, I need to get in. I don’t move forward with the overhead, but I don’t move back, so I gain nothing beneficial from overhead over a lk fireball, and I need to gain ground. *

*"Yep. Most of that is true. I can’t loop Juri. s.mp, s.mp, s.mk does work, but it doesn’t do the damage of a loop. It’s good because it IS damage. The thing is that I still have to hitconfirm it. I can’t really frametrap into it because you can backdash. The Ibuki player wants to go with cr.jabs for the frame trap because they can OS sweep to beat the backdash. But yeah, you’re right.

So here’s the question I am hesitant to answer. I’ve noticed several oddities with Ibuki vs crouching Juri. But I’m having a hard time replicating the exact situation. There is some funky things that has happened off forward throw though. The issue is that I really only get 1 option off forward throw against juri. if I try to instant air kunai and stay on the same side, sometimes it whiffs. Now it could be me missing it slightly by a frame, but there are oddities that come up in situations like that. Another thing about crouching Juri is that st.mp, st.mp is much harder to hit. So you have to cut it short to just st.mp, st.mk. When I nail down exactly the situation, I’ll let you know."*

“The same mixups do NOT work. That is why we use the other ones. b.mp is not a safe jump off a Tsumiji. The reason you use neckbreaker to finish combo instead of tsumuji is because of spacing between Ibuki and the character I’m knocking down. Tsumiji ends where I am standing. Close…far…max distance. I always end right there. So no time to react to where I end up and make it a safe jump. With neckbreaker Ibuki is always the same distance from the person I knocked down. Which means I can always choose the set up I’m doing.”

4442

Lets not forget that in some situations we can actually forward dash a kunai setup. even better is how if we have feng shue we can activate it during early kunai tosses not just getting us out the vortex but landing a full punish for ibuki on her way down. I feel its even though seeing how the neutral game for both characters is like they both made lines with their feet and tell each other “I dare you”.

4443

The goal of cr.MP and s.MK is to hit Juri out of the stores (which is what I try to do most of the time). Throwing out cr.MK out for the sake of beating cr.MP and s.MK will usually lead to a whiffpunish (ibuki cr.HK) into vortex.
If the Juri player whiffs a store in front of Ibuki she can net a decent amount of damage into her vortex.
I think they’re even on that.

The use of bonsho kick (fwd.HK) is imo at juris cr.MK range where she uses fireballs. You can pretty much land that thing everytime she does a LK fireball at that range. Of course you have to predict it but the damage is in your favor.

What I meant with overhead and the bonsho kick is that Ibuki has no need to jump because she can move around the maze of fireballs without eating chip damage and exposing herself too much.
Of course she has focus dash, block and neutraljump but having more tools in your arsenal which has the be taken into consideration by the Juri player can never be bad right ?

Neckbreaker > b.MP > j.HP is a 4 frame safejump. Kasatushi can be chased down on reaction with Neckbreaker (the up version can be punished with cr.HP SJC dash into an ambiguous reset)
Neckbreaker > b.MP with delay > j.HP j.MK targetcombo hits high twice and blows up focus. Thats the whole reason behind it. You can use it to mix up the safejump and it also blows up Dashpunches but thats another matchup.
Neckbreaker > b.MP > j.HP/j.LP > overhead. Use it as a delayed crouchtech bait not as an overhead. The overhead is just a little bonus imo.
Neckbreaker > b.MP > emptyjump overhead beats throws and crouchtechs or anything of that sort. If you know that someone is using standtech then use it. It’s airborne and can’t be thrown.
Neckbreaker > b.MP > emptyjump cr.LK / low hits low (suprise) and hey it’s an emptyjump cr.LK.

Of course it’s not as ambiguous as the kunai vortex and I exaggerated a bit earlier but she as a handful of ways to land hits off a safejump and to shut down the Kasatushi and to get ambiguous jumpins off the same mixup (which is walking a few steps forward whiffing b.MP > j.LK can crossup depending on timing, j.HP can make ex wheel and kasatushi whiff and on block it hits front and it’s all timing specific etc.)

Instead of b.MP you can whiff cr.MK (which is still safe vs EX pinwheel if you don’t believe me go and test) and then use superjump j.LK which hits crossup. There are enough ways to telegraph a mixup and then mix it up a bit.

Also the Ibuki player can always whiff the airnormal earlier if he reads a Kasatushi so he can throw.

And as I said the same mixups I mentioned here (the safejump ones to be more specific) are also available off a MK tsumuji.

MK tsumuji > b.MP > j.HP (which is also not ambiguous thats why I call it safejump) is actually a 5 frame safejump and works vs Fei Long, Seth, Viper etc.
If you don’t want to whiff b.MP then whiff fwd.LK and it’s a 4 frame safejump or do fwd.LK whiff into superjump.LK. Depending on spacing it can be ambiguous unless its done from absolute max range.

The hitboxes off a forward throw are fine too. I don’t see the problem

s.MP s.MP s.MK is also a string of 2 frame links, it might be harder on Juri because it’s a standing only combo but then theres still TC4 (4hits) into s.LP s.MK neckbreaker which actually does 10 more damage than s.MP s.MP s.MK xx Neckbreaker (290 vs 280). Also if you use the EX Neckbreaker you get 310 dmg which is more than a hitconfirmed tsumuji loop (cr.LP s.MK xx LK tsumuji etc)

Also off a MK tsumuji Ibuki can get some ambiguous instant air kunais if she slides or uses the LK dash into instant air kunai (off ~ max range +/- a few boxes) She can also bait the Kastushi by making the Kunai whiff.

Reversal FSE vs Kunais is only good if the Kunai is as meaty as possible. If it’s done like 2 frames later you get blown up and wasted your Ultra and if you try to focus dash out of everything Ibuki can just do a reaction sweep.
Same applies to the Kunai.

She has safejump mixups which are universal, kunai mixups, ambiguous jumpins, dash mixups and there is just no universal escape for Juri nor is there an universal setup that beats everything Juri has but Ibuki can limit her options to an extent though.

I haven’t tested it yet but can’t Juri just s.MK all day on wakeup ?

4444

for some of the emptyjump setups, juri has to crouch tech while also using the medium punch button

4445

Juri noob here (she’s so fun to use). Anybody has data regarding which characters can stuff Juri’s anti-air normals and which ones does far HK whiff against when crouching? It’s not good to find it out in the middle of a match.

Another one. What is Juri wake up game about? Besides the shoryuken, I have eaten enough ultras on wakeup to prefer charging and staying at some distance (little more than a shoto’s sweep). Are there safe moves on these situation?

4446

Personally I cant recall any air moves that stuff juri’s anti airs altogether. Maybe if they hit her directly from above avoiding her hitbox then maybe. But otherwise crouch strong and fierce normally trade.

Getting ultra’d on wakeup sounds more like a mashing problem to me. You shouldnt be pressing buttons at close range while someone stands. Especially if their character has a special with really fast startup or a counter. You’re just asking them to hurt you for free. And what do you mean by charging? Juri isnt a charge character. She has fuhajin storing to build meter though.

4447

That’s what he means by “charging” Charging fireballs. If that was the case people shouldn’t do meaties then…but they do. Trading sucks…but it’s better then a flat out loss. I’ll take a tie over a loss anyday.

4448

I apologize in advance for the following bulky post:

Hey y’all, I’m getting back into SF after a rather long hiatus (I started focusing on Marvel about a month before the AE 2012 updade). Since USF4 is coming soon, I’ve been motivated to get competitive with Juri again. I recently went down to the Next Level Arcade in Brooklyn to brush some of the rust off and I got my ass handed to me by a Cammy player and a Ryu player. Most of it was just bad habits I resorted to from being out of the game for so long, but some situations I had no idea how to keep momentum in my favor without taking a huge risk and getting blown up.
Anyways, my questions are: what are some good/safe ways to deal with common offensive approaches (eg. Ryu fireball neutral, Cammy divekick mixups, etc.)? C.strong has saved me from quite a few jump-ins, but aside from anti-airs I feel like I slowly lose control of the match until poor Juri gets knocked down. Also, do any of you know where I can see some good examples of meter usage? One of the bad habits I had was that I held on to all my meter for a big air-to-air punish into super (something I used to do online a lot before). I’m aware that meter is built too fast in this game to not use it, but I rarely found good opportunities to use EX moves/FADC outide of Fuhajin release -> FADC for wakeup stuff. If this stuff is too character-dependent for a clear answer, I’d be happy just knowing some options against the characters I mentioned (Ryu and Cammy). I know this is a lot I’m asking for, but just pointing me in the right direction would be much appreciated.

4449

This thing can eat up Juri’s AA normals

Honorable mentions to Vega’s Clawed J.HP and Seth’s Dive Kick

4450

Yeah… and that also stuffs out many AA’s invincible or good hitboxes. Hell it can stuff out dp’s…derp.

4451

Seth’s divekick can actually be beaten by early cr.HP, but it’s hard. Their feet don’t even touch.

See the “Juri Combos: What works on who” thread. It has lists of these character specifics.

@KiyaaKing: EX Fireballs are really good for getting some space.

4452

That thing is an insult to all things that are fundamentals.
Hey, I’m gonna just play foots… J.HP!

4453

It´s funny to look at it, realise it´s not even a full square extended beyond the hurtbox and then look at our c.HP which is about 1 and a quarter square extended beyond our hurtbox :3

4454

is there a place on the web where I can look at juri’s hit boxes?

4455

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2011/sep/30/juris-hit-box-information-super-street-fighter-4-arcade-edition/
Here is a guide for SSF4, put up on 9/30/11

4456

Just brace yourself from the excitement when you look at our cHP :3

4457

Ok, I haven’t touched Juri for a while (or this game for that matter)…I’m in training mode noticing that the muscle memory I have for her leg raise blockstrings must be off…cr mk in to leg raise hold is erroneously letting the fireball go even tho I’m clearly still holding the button…wtf…its happened to me once or twice over the yrs when I take a break…

4458

Could be a malfuncitoning button, I had that once with my Qanba, I could hold down the button and there would be a spot on it that would still trigger more inputs if I slid my finger around the button while keeping it pressed.

4459

Yea my stick has been thru the rigors…its about 4 yrs old…I was thinking maybe it was a timing issue I didn’t know about or something, but yea…I didint think about the fact my stick might be a senior citizen now…I played today and I only did it a few times…I notice if I press it super hard then it’ll tend to let me hold the charge.

4460

Can you do st.mp xx store and other inputs without fail?

I’m pretty sure you are negative edging the fireball store with MK after you release the MK button for the cr.mk. No other character really has this issue.