I’m curious whether people in this thread consider Smoke’s lack of low attacks in any chain to be an issue. What does Smoke really have to encourage opponents to block low? His move list is otherwise good, but the theory fighter in me worries.
This is a concern i’ve got, too. His sweep has got to be one of the fastest in the game, but his offense overall doesn’t seem incredibly varied. It always seems to come down to 3, d.1, 2 into whatever, b.4 for low, and b.2 for overhead, but that’s about it.
Smoke still seems very good, but I can’t figure out what role he’s supposed to fill; Up close, his normals are slow, repetitive and with the exception of those above don’t combo well. At range he can punish projectiles for a little damage but his own is very easy to dodge. Is he just meant to be played off of punishes? 50/50 with the b.2 and sweep? What’s the overall gameplan?
Noob general question guys, is there a difference between jump+1 or jump+2? same with his jump kicks, is there a difference in priority between 3 and 4?
Also, I cant seem to get the timing down for the Smoke bomb otg, what do you guys look for when attempting to jump kick to grab then otg?
Also, how unsafe is his teleport? What are his options after a teleport while being safe?
-Grab
-Sweep
-b.2, 3, smoke bomb combo
-Jump over punch to combo
Any of those above safe after teleport? I think 3,d.1,2 feels too slow and unsafe after a teleport.
well, to me, he seems more suited for zoning. because he gets around zoning easier than any other character, and because his own projectile has very fast recovery and is very fast in general. also his up close game dosent seem to be that good. no good high low mixup, and having a fast sweep looks like its just supposed to keep the opponent honest, more than basing an offense around
thats just my one week opinion. i havent had enough matches to say for sure tho.
no difference in the different kicks or punches while airborne
for the otg, after you launch, jump foward asap, but dont kickxxxthrow until the last possible moment. you should be well on the way down before you hit the kick
time your bomb so that you are pressing bp as soon as you land
you must be talking about his akuma teleport. i dont think its very safe at all. any recovery at all means that your opponent would just have to adjust his attack so that his move is active as you are coming out of the teleport, and you would eat a full combo
HNIC Mike, thanks for the tips and input.
Tips for landing smoke bomb after air throw:
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Do the air throw as low to the ground as you can. If doing it off of 2 d+1 4, time your jump kick xx air throw to be as late as possible without making the air throw whiff.
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Smoke bomb can be buffered. Mash the input as you’re landing and you should get it right when he lands.
With these tips I can get the combo almost all of the time, even online.
@Mike: Smoke’s bomb has a bad hitbox and does no chip. It’s a good counter-zoner projectile or wakeup attack, but it can’t be used to pressure on its own. If the opponent moves left or right in any way at all, it whiffs.
Smoke’s teleport is pretty safe. I use it liberally and haven’t had anyone hit me out of it. I’ve seen the same story in tournament matches. I’m pretty sure you can act as soon as the invincibility ends (I usually go straight into grab if the opponent is scared).
yeah, i know it dosent do chip. i was just saying that even tho smoke has some good damage, his toolset seems like its more suited for keeping your distance. with the slow normals and lack of low string combo damage, spaced out smoke balls and projectile punnishes seem to be his strongest attributes
his teleport could be safe in the no recovery sense, but if someone puts out a move that is still active when your teleport ends, wouldnt you be forced into taking damage? i could be wrong, but this sort of thing is tough to test online. i wish i could make a cpu recording
He has many counters to enemies who zone. That doesn’t necessarily mean he should play that way himself.
Smoke’s biggest assets are his counter tools, mobility tools, and of course his damage. That doesn’t really lend itself to staying close or far. A good smoke will do both.
Yeah, he’s missing a low string, but sweep will work fairly well, and he has a great mid string that leads to huge damage. If he needs a fast move, crouching 3s are always fast. If things get really bad, teleport away and en:vibrate are great options to relieve pressure.
His teleport is invincible. If he can block as soon as the invincibility ends (and he might be able to), then no, it’s not punishable at all. I don’t believe the opponent can do anything about it short of guessing what you’re going to do and doing the correct response. Throwing out an early move can force him to block, but I don’t think it leads to a guaranteed hit.
Even if it’s not perfectly safe, it’s still a valuable spacing tool. See: Akuma
thats what i mean, if you have to block, it means you have to take damage. that means youre putting yourself into a defensive position. translates to not safe as an offensive tool in my book, but play it how you want. of course it has utility as a defensive manuver however, but i thought the origional question was takling about using it offensively
obviously you can play the character whichever way works for you, but to me no low string means theres no real threat to make your opponent crouch block. when compared to other characters that makes his up close game limited. the slow normals makes him look even weaker up close
You don’t have to block, you just can. You only need to if you think your opponent is going to throw out an attack and you don’t want to risk an uppercut or en:vibration. It’s especially hard for your opponent to throw out attacks if you cross up with it, since they risk attacking the wrong way.
I often do teleport into throw to catch opponents who start to turtle after I counter their long range game. It has a very high success rate.
Characters have enough built-in tools that it doesn’t matter. Throws and sweeps beat high blocks, and his normals aren’t nearly as slow as you’re making them out to be. He can also combo easily off of a mid string, which is something that many characters can’t do. He’s fine in that range. Sure, it’s not his specialty, but that’s kinda the point of smoke. He’s at least as lacking if you play him solely at range, and probably more so.
What is the most damaging thing Smoke can do after landing a random Smoke Bomb and having the opponent drop in front of him? Obviously you can do 3, d.1, 2, jump kick, air throw, and you can tack on an otg Smoke Bomb just for the damage, but is there anything more?
By teleport, are you referring to his Back-forward 3?
3, d+1, 2 then another 3, d+1, 2, to jump kick to air grab is the most damaging I’ve seen or heard of. If you don’t like that, 3, d+1, 2 to jump kick to teleport punch does more than jump kick to air grab on its own.
Or forward back 3.
Smoke Bomb OTG feels really janky now, was landing it 10/10 a few days ago but when I sat down with my roommate tonight, I didn’t land a single one (Thankfully I’m maining Quan so I wasn’t hardbodied all night).
I’m hoping they didn’t remove it?
I hate these unannounced fixes…its like aids, we wont know unless tested.
I’ll go test it. I land it very consistently.
No change. I don’t even know what update you’re referring to.
Develop a method that ensures that you hit it. The move is bufferable on the descent of the air throw - input the move a couple times as he’s coming down and that should help you land it.
Also remember to do the jump kick to air throw as late as possible so that you’re near the ground.
I think this is the problem I was having, I wasn’t landing fast enough.
That’s the trick that a lot of people are missing I think. Once you know that and how to buffer it, you should start getting it pretty consistently.
Hey guys. I just wanted to share this, I dunno if is any useful:
I’m not a very hardcore fighter-player, though I sometimes pretend and wish I were.
My point is I am really bad at remembering lots of things and executing them in succession, but I figured out this really easy 13 hit 57% Xray combo.
I think it might be doable midscreen, but it is most likely to be pull off in the corner.
j.LP, LK, c.LP, HP, dash forward, LK, HP, jump forward, j.Kick, air grab, smoke, XRay.
Things to note:
- I tried to add a c.LP between the LK and HP after the forward dash to receive a 14 hit combo, but for some reason it only did 55% instead.
- I think it can be done from midscreen, but you have to juggle the second LK and HP before he falls to close to the floor and you jump forward and do the j.Kick + airgrab. I managed to hit the smoke after the grab once, but didn’t complete the whole combo with the Xray. Very strict timing though.
- After you air throw in the corner the opponent can either land completely in the corner, in which case the smoke will always connect, or he can land closer to the middle. The smoke can still connect, but the timing is a bit tighter, and you have to grab the enemy as close to the ground as possible.
- Delay the Xray for half a sec. Should be the same as doing a smoke -> Xray.
As I said, I am no theoryfighter, but I figured I’d share it in case it can be useful. The % is really high too, imo.
Changed it up a bit, just in case I did’t have Xray:
j.LP, LK, c.LP, HP, dash forward, LK, HP, jump forward, j.Kick, air grab, smoke, j.Kick, air grab
13 hits, 47%
Vid for the interested: [media=youtube]Dz9KPgZwxiQ[/media]