I am sorry if this is stupid and has been touched on but there is a ton to read here. Am I correct then that you can never safe jump against Ryu no matter what since his DP comes out in three frames? So any jump attack would actually be hit? So if I throw and go for a jump in any attack I will eat SRK? Only neutral jump timed properly would be “safe”?
It does not have to be a neutral jump in order to block/attack the instant you land.
You just cannot throw out a midair attack without being vulnerable for 2 frames, or being unable to attack for 4 frames, on landing. And because of this, anything that hits in 3 frames, or has invincibility and grabs in 5 frames or less, will connect no matter what you attempt. (Has to also become active later than 1 frame. Zangief super and ultra will whiff on safe jump reversal because you are still in the air.)
Ok, this throws a wrinkle into my explanation. Does the special really come out on the 2nd landing frame? Or is that just a horrible interpretation of what you’re saying?
Has to be the latter. I haven’t noticed anything deviating from the 2/4 frame guard/action breakdown in my experience. But I’ve been horribly wrong before…
subbing
i def have some things that i want to add / comment on but have to run off to work atm
also work blocked srk so i have to do it when i get home / on the weekend
Just want to say regarding the op that f.lk with sagat on counterhit gains at least +2 ,not +1, as he can do CH f.lk ~ hard kick and that not every other move( special or medium or hard nomral) gains +3.(Fireballs gain +2, and i think that so do medium normals).Also, are there any cancelable command normals besides ryu’s f.hp and viper’s f.hk?
Whoops my bad. I just tried testing again and you’re right. I guess I was hitting the :r: without realizing it during my previous tests.
Ooh, wow good find, man. Well, I just tested stuff out, and Sagat’s f.lk gives exactly 2 more frames of hit stun on counterhit, fireballs also give 2, but medium normals still give 3 extra hit stun frames.
I’m not sure about the cancellable command normals, but I think those are the only two.
Edit: Oh, and I’ve found some other stuff out as well, and I will be finally be adding them as well as updating the first post after this long while.
i likey. cosign with good read
Can you please remove that bit about “Ken’s DP on counter hit can lead to full ultra”? That’s a flat out lie. I’ve seen more than enough vids in which a Ken landed counter hit DP then canceled into ultra and it was the same lower damage version.
The full ultra is a matter of distance in which you hit (Like Gouken’s). So if this thread is truly a guide and a great read because it debunks myths, it very well shouldn’t add to the myth list because one person said something about it and didn’t know any better and the thread creator didn’t bother checking the legitimacy of it.
Are you saying that it’s possible to get the full Ultra off a normal hit if the spacing and timing is correct? I’d like to see this setup.
Okay, so in order to get the full Ultra, the opponent must be in a “float” state. That is, if you could be hitting your opponent with normals within the juggle, they’re in that state. So, if you do :hp: srk without counter hit and FADC on the second hit, try to like standing jab or whatever. You will see that it’s unable to hit.
But now do a counter hit :hp: srk and FADC on either the first or second hit. Now, you can see that you can juggle with normals, as well as anything else. I also know that the first hit of an antiair (normal or counterhit) :hp: srk also creates this juggle state. Also, a regular jump is considered a “float” state. Ken might have a few more that creates this juggle state, but I am unsure.
You do have to wait a tiny bit to get the full ultra. Getting the “floating” :hp: srk and then immediately FADC and ultra will result in the short, crappy one.
But please, show me all of these videos that you are talking about.
In truth, you’re claim that “You’ve seen enough vids” is rediculous. Do you think Richard, myself& all the other people testing this stuff sre watching videos to gauge our results?
Woah, question it before you accuse people of lying.
Attacks have juggle properties, each individual hit of an attack has juggle properties.
Imagine a ficitious counter, this is what determines juggle capability, each hit of each moves (Including normals) has this number. Now Kens HP SRK is fairly advanced, so i’ll start with something similair.
Do Sagats HP SRK, this creates a standard knockdown, most normals won’t hit during standard knockdown, but Sagat has exceptions.
EX: SRK -> FADC -> Jab = doesn’t hit
His exceptions, are the commonly known Forward Roundhouse, & the not so well known left/right Jump + MP (The godly elbow)
this is a basic exmple of the juggle counter.
Now back to Ken, the important thing about Kens HP SRK is the second & third hit do not alter propperties wether it hits counter or not, it’s all down to the first hit. The first hit, normally doesn’t raise the opponent, do HP SRK for 1 hit then FADC, the enemy stays standing, now on counter it causes a Float knockdown (Anything can hit them out of it, even normals) Also known as JP0, almost exactly the same as a neutral jump. Thats the first hit explained, the second hit, if it hits a grounded enemy causes a standard knockdown, if it hits an aerial opponent it causes a Float Knockdown RESET, this means if the enemy is in Float knockdown, this will hit them & KEEP them in float knockdown, meaning with infinite meter, you could do a HP SRK indeffinately so long as you always hit the enemy with the second hit of his SRK, test it out. The first hit, though it causes Float knockdown on air opponent DOES NOT contain the RESET which allows it to be done over again & again.
Now as for Kens Ultra, the first hit is JP 0, just like most normals, meaning it WILL NOT hit an enemy in standard knockdown, every hit after however has a massively high JPmeaning it’ll most likely always hit an enemy no matter how much he’s been juggled. if you do a counterhit SRK you still have to perform the Ultra quite low as if the enemy is to high the first hit will whiff, initiating the weaker Ultra
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Check the first combo, LP SRK MAkes standard knockdown, first hit of EXSRK is JP 0 meaning it doesn’t hit. second hit of EX SRK has a unique property, it has Float Knockdown Reset, but also hits on JP 1, so if you hit on JP 1 & FADC, the counter stays on JP 1 meaning the enemy stays in standard knockdown. This can be done indeffinately, i do this till the enemy stuns. Then i do a LEvel3 Focus attack, wait until the enemy is in stage two of focus crumple, this means the first hit of the HP SRK raises the opponent,basically emulating the effects of a Counter HPSRK, i FADC, then the second HP SRK hits on the second hit of the SRK, re-resetting the counter. Which then, as you can see leads to full Ultra.
I can promise you, it’s not just positioning, you could do LP SRK 100 times then perform an Ultra & not one of them would lead to a full Ultra.
Hope that’s easy to understand, KEns HP SRK is in the deeper end of understanding juggle mechanics in SFIV
Blatantly incorrect. Which video? I can think of one and it wasn’t a proper Ken full ultra FADC setup. In the video in which Damdai fp.srk’s someone’s focus attack, the first hit–you know, the one that actually matters in whether or not the counter-hit puts them in float state–gets absorbed, the SECOND hit counter-hits (which doesn’t do shit mind you) and Damdai gets a half ultra.
Unless the first hit counter-hits or hits them in mid-air or hits them after they’ve dropped to their knees after a focus attack, you will -not- get Ken’s full ultra. Anti-air, counter-hit, and Focus Attack Crumple are the -only- 3 ways to land a full ultra off of a fp.srk FADC.
That’s a pretty big demand. I haven’t been watching much lately, but since you asked, I had to find at least one.
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I think you said something about anti-air SRK FADC into full ultra. I must apologize for misspeaking. I didn’t mean to express doubt of the possibility for a counter-hit SRK comboing into full ultra. I suppose I wanted a more in-depth explanation of all those possibilities that Kick and Richard Nguyen mentioned just now (well in the past couple days) rather than giving me the impression that only if a DP counter-hits will you be able to get the full ultra.
Now if you want me to find a video in which a Ken gets counter hit DP that doesn’t combo into full ultra, well you’re gonna have to either be patient with me, or find it yourself. But one can’t deny that spacing and timing are huge factors in landing the full ultra also off of DP FADC.
PS. I’m well aware of the enhancing properties of counter-hit combos. I play mainly Rose and there are a number of good combos she can perform based on counter-hits.
In Kens sense, counterhit actually alters the properties of the move, not just better frame advantage. like the equivelent of of Sagats Tiger Upper,when it hits counter it makes the enemy spin wildly, Orchun Li’s D+ F LK causes standard knockdown on counterhit.
Unless i’mmistaken & Rose has some property altering CH’s.I only found out recently her F+HK causes standard knockdown when it hits in air.
Oh all I was getting at, was a counter-hit poke will increase frame advantage leading into counter-hit specific combos. Her f-HK can juggle into super when used as AA. Her only launcher move would be reflect, and I’ve never thought to test if that can lead into anything unique.
Her HP Soul Reflect can be followed up with her Super, without cancelling. But all told thats as far as it can stretch. Except one hit of an EX SoulSpark in the corner. In SSFIV apparently you can FADC her Rflect in to soul throw.
yeah I meant unique to a counter-hit reflect. I play Rose sir, I know about everything you said haha.
Just a small point, sorry if it seems pedantic.
Unless I’ve misunderstood what u meant here:
Quote Originally Posted by jchensor View Post
And just as an FYI for a technical reason why Code Shortcuts exist, it’s REALLY EASY to state why. SF4 has one change in the game that did not exist in all previous games: switching between any of the 8 directions RE-REGISTERS ALL JOYSTICK INPUTS. Because a diagonal counts as both and , hitting the diagonal registers as both of those inputs. Now, in ALL OTHER Street Fighter games, shifting from to meant you let go of and that’s all. It never registered as being pressed again.
sf3 3s also re-registered directions when you shifted to diagonal. You can see this in the way i do kara-demon which is:
:r: + :mp:, :lp:, :lp:, :df:, :lk:, :hp:
holding :r: during the first 3 punch button inputs and then moving to :df:. when you go to :df:, the game registers another :r: input and the demon still comes out when you finish inputting. i can’t remember about older sf games tho. sorry if someone already mentioned this or if i misunderstood you
Yeah, others have pointed out that to me as well. I guess I really never played Third Strike enough. 
So yeah, I was wrong about that.
- James
You’re so good at this game!!!
Doesn’t apply to Viper’s Super Jump either. If you hold any direction for more than a few frames (2 maybe?), then you have to pass through neutral to perfom a SJ. That’s why you can’t perform a smooth motion to SJ while you’re moving forward or backward.