LOL. 
Good shit.
Actually, I forgot to address Shikiās post. Just wanted to say a couple things:
-
Mizuchiās combo is actually a true infinite in the corner, and a very easy one at that.
-
In GGXX, Eddie had an unblockable loop that was either infinite or damn close, and he could start it from many different knockdowns, well outside the corner. I fail to see how Oswaldās tech is at all worse than this.
Hopefully this will become a moot point once XII comes outā¦
Donāt get me wrong, probability is an important part of an argument for or against different tournament formats here but itās not as if these games are comprised of completely random guesses in the first place; a lot of the work is spent setting up situations where the opponent is making guesses that have catastrophic results on an incorrect guess and either a reset of momentum or a slightly worse mixup if they guess correctly. A good player is going to be better at all of the guesswork involved, and if theyāre getting it right their odds of losing to random guess supers or whatever youāre imagining are not all that high.
If Japanese tournaments are random, I donāt see how theyāre any more random than the skill levels of the players involved allow for. I think supposedly Ogawa won some 5v5 tournament by himself, and that Chibita guy in VF has won like 100-man kumite events 100-0 hasnāt he? I just donāt buy the idea that if we have single-game-single-elim tournaments youāre going to end up with shit like Wong, Watson or whoever the fuck out in the second round to some Tilt champion.
The more games you play, the narrower the pool of viable tactics gets because the opponent has more time to adapt to whatever youāre doing and respond with the tried-and-true stuff that doesnāt get any worse no matter how well you adapt to it, like set-in-stone 50/50s or whatever. At big giant tournaments, sure, you want to avoid that, but why canāt the creativity it takes to come up with some bizarre gimmick be something the community values at least some of the time rather than looks down their nose at as ārandomā or a fluke? Again, this is something you can do in the 2 out of 3 format but the odds are weighted against it just like theyāre weighted against a complete scrub accidentally beating a good player. Why canāt the other format be acknowledged as testing a different skill set rather than some sort of scrubby random competitively inferior format? After all, by that logic, 2-out-of-3 isnāt as accurate as first to 50, right? Would we run all tournaments like that if time permitted?
Iām more in favor of single-game-single-elim at small events as a time-saving measure, I just take offense at the whole Japan nutriding thing, especially since you brought the GG community into it ā Iāve only ever seen you at like four GG tournaments (two that I went to in Ohio, one Evo and one Midwest) and I donāt think you know the community very well at all if you think itās full of Japanese nutriders; in fact, some of the people who are least impressed by the Japanese are the people in favor of alternative formats, like Flash (if I recall he likes teams, which I personally hate but whatever) and then a lot of the guys arguing against, for example, teams at Evo are the people who are on Japanese forums translating all kinds of obscure shit about how to tie your shoes with I-no against tensionless Robo-Ky on a Wednesday.
So I guess this thread is about SNK games. Iām no good at those. There, on topic. Carry on.
Thatās why I said ātechnicallyā it is a semi-infinite. It still costs 1/2 a bar of meter to start. Even though 1/2 a bar is easy to earn in NGBC, the point still stands.
Furthermore, the infinite isnāt all-encompassing because it isnāt easy for Mizuchi to force someone into the corner. His game is built around zoning and keepaway. Heās frankly terrible at close range. Both of his supers even reset the match into the center of the screen.
I canāt comment on Eddie since Iām not a serious GG player, and I never played in any GGXX tournament until Reload.
However, canāt you Burst out of it at any point? At least thatās better than Oswald. His most damaging combos knock you into the air where you canāt even Saving Shift.
are people in this thread playing KOF98 on GGPO? I felt the need to ask this. Thats one way to support the game and give the Cannons and Wizard concrete evidence that an SNK game can break into EVOās main lineup in the form of 98 UM.
Wordā¦ :tup:
This really isnāt that important but I notice people keep referring to Breakerās Revenge, Fighters History Dynamite, and Waku Waku 7 as āSNKā games. They are not SNKās, they were just made for Neo-Geo.
saying they are āSNK gamesā is just alot fucking easier than saying āthey were made for Neo Geoā and no one really gives that much of a shit whether Sunsoft made them or they were pooped out of one of many Seattle area hookerās assholes that post on Craigslist.
Good thread and great discussion Josh. I think you Of course you can apply this not just to SNK but a lot of other non-mainstream games in general. Also, ood looks on starting a discussion drawing the line (pointing out the difference) between Japan/asian nutriders, and people respecting what international players bring to the table in general.
I should probably fuck with WHP sometime as I actually do enjoy Breakers and FHD and I Have fucked with those games for a good amount of time at some pointā¦even though I havenāt entered any of DGās tourneys as of late 
A lot of the people who claim they support other games and are generally openminded (in this thread) woulda had me fooled though. :lol:
That was a hell of a lot of reading.:wasted:
A lot of good points wrer raised.
But seriously, Garou NEEDS to be a front game for the SNK community. Iāll go as far to say that itās SNKās 3s.
Iāll support/champion this game to death. I am becoming to Garou what Keits is to WHP.
The first and only rule of bannings is that you donāt ban things until they prove to be a big problem. The discussion should only be around what a ābig problemā is exactly.
As someone who sometimes dabbles in SNK games, Iāll echo what some other people have said: there are too damn many. Iām not saying people shouldnāt play them but there needs to be more focus so people who want to join the scene have a clear entry point.
Lets play over P2P sometime. Ill show you the ropes.
Some Capcom players have the exact same attitude with ST though, and Tekken players with TTT, so itās not like SNK players are the only ones to blame for being like that.
Those players are a small minority of their respective communities.
For Capcom, for the next 5 years itāll be more like āSF4 isnāt 3rd Strike so letās not play itā.
Tekken players will continue to lap up the newest Tekken as long as they donāt try anything new or original again, ever, like they did in Tekken 4.
KOF98 has gotten new life thanks to GGPO.
Most fun I have had with KOF in a looong time.
Secondly: Garou is an AMAZING game that sooo many people take for granted. It is the only game that rivals SF3 in terms of animation IMO.
Also, i cant stress enough how fun RB2 is. RB2>>>FFS. If i wanna play SF2 id play SF2 lol.
Besides a few of the jewels in the rough (WHP for example) there is NO point to ever play a game like Waku Waku 7 in tournys. WHAT IS THE POINT.
DG: I know you like to keep things fresh but shit, half the people entering these tournys aint even familiar with the big name games! Stick to the few good games, pound them into people, and people will get better and the SNK scene will grow more i think. SNK players are trying to play too many damned games. Id rather have one KOF98 tourny with 40 people than 8 random games tournys with entrants barely pushing a bakers dozen.
Just some food for thought.
Im tired.
Just thought Iād pipe in to say I enjoy Garou more than most SF games.
I am absolutely terrible at it though 
Garou and KOF98 for mainlining, please.
i mean im all about supporting scenes and shitā¦ but thereās has to be three or four that the community needs to be in favor ofā¦ like maybe the two latest onesā¦ and two older ones but fucking good ass games (like garouā¦ hell yes!!! and like SS tenkaā¦ someone show me some special cuse im always down for some SS games)ā¦ like with the capcom community itās always been like 3 or 4 gamesā¦ 3s, cvs2, marvel, STā¦ there is no reason why snk canāt do the sameā¦ or at least try to minimize a little bitā¦
maybe im a little bias cuse im liking NGBC alot so sorry if i really say NGBC a lotā¦ but i like it alotā¦
Yo I know you busy with Arcana promoting it so I know you real busy so I know when you get the time youāll enter!! :tup:
But see 98 is gonna have 40 peopleā¦**periodā¦**the big games are gonna draw big numbersā¦thats something you all are forgettingā¦
I go by numbers mainly whne determining my SNK tier list of gamesā¦Nothing moreā¦#'s is what makes the difference. Breakers Revenge draws like 16 on average 25 at EVOā¦KOF98 eve though hasnt been run has always gotten at least 25+ people signed up for it and closer to 40 so that is NOT going to changeā¦NGBC is gonna draw people, Garou isā¦Final Round XI is gonna put RB2 on the mapā¦
SST draws numbersā¦WHP doesā¦the games that draw numbers speak for themselvesā¦
Most you all forget too though about scheduling these tournamentsā¦
Once again youall dont see everything that goes on behind the scenesā¦