Mastering the Mantis: Yang Combo Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
201

Sorry it s gona be a long post.
Now I need some answer to go to the next level with yang.

Now i m arround 200 wins and 70 % wining rate an 23 000 bp with my card.
I m finally starting to understand yang.

However I still have plenty things that I need to know and work on.
first combo especially punish one.

So if I understand well close hp followed with roll is better than close mp?
cl hp hk roll does more damage than cl mp hk roll?
what about cl mp, st lk , hp rekka?
is it more damage than cl hp, hp rekka?

In punish, due to okizem timing isn t it better to do mk Roll?
so that if they wake up fast the jump mk will be a meaty cross up.
I think the HK version make yang recorver slower and the next jump is not a meaty cross up.

Now with 2 ex metter.
what the best punish?
can someone tell me this combo damage
cl mp, mp palm, fadc, st mk, jump dive kick wiff, st mk hk roll.
I think It s the best punish with 2 metters.
with ultra
st mp Mp palm fadc U2 damage?
can you DO U1 instead of U2( i m sure you can do U2 not sure about U1)
That should be more damage than st mp rekak* 2 fadc U2
another questions.
In the corner let s say you do cr mk rekka*2 fadc and you have ultra 2
witch one is the best
U2
Cl mk, HP palm, U2?

for metter the second one is far better, but what about damage?

So now time for me to share what I know.
After rekka*2 in the corner fadc Cl Mk , Palm you can do a reset with CR lk.
then jump and chose cross up dive kick etc etc.

cl lk Hp palm dureing SE work.
you have to be very fast to cancel the st lk.
the timing is completly super fast compare to normal cancel.
it will do arround 30 % damage in guard and it s a complete block string( se HP palm on gard damage are HUGE)

Best combo after stun in the corner that I Found( character depending but Huge damage)

FA lvl 3 BD Ex palm( you have to make it so that the ex palm doesn t touch at first, but only the Air release in a second time touch) EX palm( yes a second one…HUGE DAMAGE) U2 or mk Roll.

This combo is really big, If you have only one metter you can repleace the second ex palm by a hp palm… still huge damage.
However du to damage scaling I will recomend to use 2 metters only if the stun came with a 2 or 3 hit max, or if the opponement is nearly dead.

Other small stuff, the Os I use:
anti wake up back dash

cr lp crlp+HK ( os sweep)
with u2 or U1 CR lp st lp OS U2/U1

anti wake up ex roll abel
Cr lp stlp+ lk( OS throw)
Thinking but haven t try of OS special grab , might be to slow i need to try this one, but might work)

againsr blanka especialy in the corner
crlp st lp+mk( OS cl MK)
if they wake up trying to escape with ex whatever strange roll( i don t know the name, the one that they can control and that make them go in the air and escape)
the cl mk will touch, then you can Palm roll them in combo( yep…good OS)

Against boxer

jump MK OS sweep
if they try to escape with ex punch it will often make you wiff the jump Mk then you can punish with sweep( work better if you put them on the ground with HK roll)
you surely can OS U1 i haven t try , but I generally keep it for punishing any back forward punch attack) I will need to try to OS a rekka.

Anyway sorry for this wall.
just have so many questions now…

thanks for any answer especially for punishing situations.

202

so sorry for the double post:
making some research after finding the frame and damage document.

cl hp is better ther cl mp for punish before roll.

Hp rekka will alway make more damage than roll( but no oki)

cl mp, mp palm fadc cl mk, dive kick cancel cl mk hk roll will do 351 dmg if I don t make any mystake.
st hp hp rekka*2 fadc mk etc etc will do 338dmg
so first one is the best punish

can you do cl hp mp palm? if yes thar should be the best punish with 2 metters for yang

ex palm and st palm does the same damage so no use to do 2 ex palm after fa lv3 back dash in the corner.

so after stun
fa lvl3 back dash ex palm, hp palm mk roll will be the best combo with 1 metter.

you can also do a cl mk after the ex palm to go for a reset if damage scaling is already huge.

still have a lot of things to think about.
I will try to share some info. I see aqua and all good yang play often( combo max neurosis and plenty of other master/ Grd master)
so I can see what s they are using.

obvioulsy no so often super…

thanks if you can help me with U2 and U1 damage.

203

mp palm fadc let yu at + 4
so no way to dcl mk
u2 cr lp/ lk that all you can do after…

204

there is no way MP palm FADC leaves you at +4 on hit, U2 has a 9 frame start up IIRC and ultra 1 has a 8 frame start up, I’ve seen someone combo into one of his ultras.

205

HP Rekka, 2nd hit, is -6 on hit. When you FADC it, it becomes +10.
MP Palm is +2 on hit. If you FADCed it, you should be well over +10 in frame advantage. Probably around +18. @_@

206

Palm recovers much faster than mantis slash does, so it makes sense that palm would be plus frames on hit. However, frame advantage from a FADCed move depends on how much hit stun the moves have. +4 does seem a bit low though.

207

I have attempted strong palm fadc U1 many times, and every time it didn’t work out. U1 is 8 frames, so if I’m doing everything perfectly that means strong palm is LESS that +8 on hit -> fadc.

+18 on hit is insane, do you how huge that would be? That means any follow-up would be incredibly easy, and they’re not. I tried for a long time to get palm fadc launch (launch is 7 frame startup) and every time I thought it was just -slightly- off because it looked like it was going to work. Eventually I came to the conclusion that you can’t. That means it’s +6 or less. I haven’t tried any 5-frame activation moves yet. Will try that today?

U2 from point blank has 4 (FOUR) frame startup. This is why you can strong palm fadc into u2. I’d say Strong palm is about +5 on hit at most.

208

That’s what I was thinking.

But, rekka FADC is easier and better, it seems.

209

Strong palm, fadc forward is +4.

But you could increase that advantage if you did the palm meaty somehow, like on wakeup.

The reason why hp mantis x2, fadc is so crazy is because it has 30 frames of hitstun.

210

I’m quite sure FADCs doesn’t work like that, you don’t get more hitstun or a faster cancel just because you’re doing it meaty. Counterhit, however…

211

CH MP Palm FADC should only have +3 over a MP Palm FADC. Shouldn’t it?

212

you’re right, I was just on a different train of thought. The meaty only matters witout the fadc

213

I’ll be updating this topic this week. If there’s any specific combos or OSes you want to have me include, please let me know.

Big projects. >:3

214

Specials have +2, so totally +6.

215

The strongest corner combo I have found:

Close fierce xx strong palm, fadc -> s.jab -> launch, fierce palm, forward rolling kick.

This does like 40% to Ryu - huge, HUGE damage for the cost of two ex bars.

The fierce palm -> forward rolling kick does not work on everyone, I haven’t gotten a list written down but - it works on Ryu, Gief, twins. Definitely doesn’t work on Viper.

This combo is pretty much a punish combo, not easily hit confirmed compared to slashes. Opponent does a dp in the corner, you get this combo (unless said DP takes them -out- of the corner [Yun] ). You can also easily get this combo by forcing an opponent to block a cross up jump forward in the corner, then command grabbing yourself out of it.

The only problem is that this is a 1-frame, un-plinkable combo. FADC from strong palm is +4, so you have to time the jab. The forward rolling kick after fierce palm can be a little tricky too, you need to get the palm out as soon as possible, otherwise you risk having the rolling kick whiff.

Also, if you really want to be safe, and not have to guess who this combo doesn’t work on, you can sub out [fierce palm -> forward rolling kick] for [strong palm -> RH rolling kick] for similar damage and is also more lenient to land.

Overall, this is an incredibly buff combo, making throwing out something unsafe in the corner a very poor choice. Try it out.

Side note - counter hit close fierce xx fierce palm is a combo - you can fish for it in the corner, and if you have U2 you can make it even more damaging. The only downside is if the fierce was blocked or non-CH, there’s a gap in the middle.

216

You could back-plink the jab, but I’m not sure if it’s worth learning how.

217

Hey gang!
I’ve been watching tons of Yang videos trying my best to study up and write down moves I see. I had a question regarding corner pressure/juggle tricks that some of you lucky fellas who have been playing in the arcarde can answer.

I’ve seen in a Yang movelist and combo video on youtube that you can EX Palm strike --which wall bounces in the corner and follow it up with a non-ex Palm strike.
Now I’ve also seen EX Mantis strikes also cause a wall bounce so techincally one could Palm strike off of that rebound as well.

So anyway my question: Are you able to use one of these wall bounce set ups and juggle with senkyuutai (dp kick) FADC into either Ultra?

Thoughts or better setups?

218

I’m pretty sure you can just EX Palm, (wallbounce), U1.

219

EX palm can lead into U2. As far as I know, U1 cannot connect off any palm.
EX slashes do not wall bounce, they leave you in a juggle state, so you can get U2 afterwards in the corner. I doubt you can FADC from a rolling kick into U2, that’d probably use up the juggle count.

220

Hey thanks a lot for clearing up the Ex mantis strikes not wall bouncing.
the reason i was thinking the DP kick into Ultra may work as it reminded of Ryu’s U1 setup off his dragon punch
course frames and all that are different so I was just rolling on theory. which makes it a bad idea to jump in on Ryu if he has ultra stocked as the the shoryuken AA into Ultra is pretty easy pull off. It’d be cool if Yang could do something similar.
MAN I can’t wait till DLC, lol!
Yang and Chun Li all day!
lol