Martial Masters anyone?

System_1 · November 5, 2009, 9:27pm

pretty solid game

Plexo_Tlipoca · November 26, 2009, 12:15pm

About Drunk Mastrer:

236+D can be followed up by any attack if it was done as a juggle (mainly by the super because of the recovery time of the move).
236+D-236+P cannot be followed up by any any move not even the super (exept by another 236+K or 214+BC)
236+B Can only be followed up by 236+P
236+B-236+P can be followed up by any move (the super and the difficult loop are the best choices)

Cancelling 41236+A into 214+BC will not lead into anything, but cancelling the same move after any combo that finish with 6+A will combo if you cancel the 41236+A on the first or the 3rth hit. This combination seems to not lead into anything impressive in terms of damage. Probably trying to do the loop afer that is the best choice, and may be easier than other setups.

I have found this particular combo very useful with him:

C, C, 6+A, 214+C-C, 214+BC, run, J.C/D, 236236+P

Does the same damage than doing the loop 3 times and then the super but is easier to do. On the other hand, you’ll need 1.6 bar.

C, C, 6+A, 236+D-236+P, 214+BC, run, J.C/D, and now if you do 236236+P the super will not combo!

Drunk Master is a weird character. Some moves hit or do not hit in similar situations.

Gwyrgyn_Blood · November 29, 2009, 11:27am

My experience with Drunken is that you’re best off using your meters on his supers. 236236P super does a truckload of damage at the end of any combo, and 236236K is a great utility super. 236B+C is useful for extra damage since you can end it in 236236P of course, but you can’t use it off his OS which sucks.

Speaking of his OS, basically how it works is that you can’t get a 632146P to come out when chaining from a blocked move. So if you do 5B 6A 632146P, you’ll get the command throw on hit or the roll on block. Very useful to know.

Arttronik · November 29, 2009, 11:53am

I saw this game in Savannah, but the game no longer worked, so the empty cabinet and Martial Masters decal was quite a tease.

Anyone know any of the info on this game, though? Since I rarely see it, I want to know what board is runs on, and maybe I can try to get it and hook it up in the cabinet in my house…maybe, lol.

BTW, the animation is REALLY on point in this game! It looks great!

Nocturnal · November 29, 2009, 12:34pm

http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=809&page=2

There you go.

Arttronik · November 29, 2009, 1:53pm

Thanks dude, you rock.

Darksaige13 · November 30, 2009, 1:13am

Does anyone know if this game ever got a console release? I remember playing it some years back in the tilt here in jax, fl. I thought the game was the shit and I liked the lotus master.

VEGA_OMEGA · November 30, 2009, 1:23am

Finally this game is getting some recognition. Most under-rated fighting game of all time.

Now if only framemame would emulate this properly.

General_Deamond · November 30, 2009, 1:23am

It’s arcade only.

DeadlyRave-Neo · November 30, 2009, 6:31am

it can be played on final burn p2p

Shishioh · December 3, 2009, 10:46pm

Does final burn emulate it fully? I remember it missing moves and links/chains and other vital shit on Mame. That really pissed me off.

Gwyrgyn_Blood · December 3, 2009, 11:26pm

Yes it plays fine in FBA. It actually plays mostly fine in MAME now as well, except for some speed and extra sound issues.

Shishioh · December 4, 2009, 1:26am

Ok. I got it running on FBA. Are there any cheat files I can get for practice? Because the only ones I can find are for Mame and the FBA cheats are old as dirt.

Gwyrgyn_Blood · December 4, 2009, 1:45am

Try this one:
http://www.dragoninstall.com/junk/martmast.ini

The original cheats file was busted so I had to make this one. Let me know if it doesn’t work.

Shishioh · December 4, 2009, 1:48am

It works. Thanks.

The_Electrifying_One · December 4, 2009, 1:58am

Gwyrgyn_Blood:

Crane seems like she might actually have a third infinite. It only works deep in the corner, and only against Reika reliably (will work on Huang and Scorpion as well but randomly fails for some reason I don’t understand). Getting any reps is extremely hard, probably boils down to 1F links every time. Input is:
5A 6A(1) 623B, 5A 6A(1) 623B … etc

Reason it works is because for some reason, her 623B won’t cross up and thus you can get a combo off it as though you did it from behind. I’ll see if I can get a video of it at some point, but it’s so hard it pretty much needs to be tool assisted.

Some more interesting stuff. The game uses a hit attribute system almost identical to BlazBlue. All moves will hit air/head/body/foot/throw, and moves can likewise have invincibility in those same areas. Some odd examples are Monks 6C which has air/head guard point, and Snake’s 63214K which has foot invincibility, and is actually not a throw but is an unblockable body strike.

Other odd stuff on that note, is that backrolls aren’t head, air or throw invulnerable. And neither Dragon Punches nor Jumps are throw invulnerable on startup. :I

Something else interesting is that 214B+C shadow attacks have the special properties of always being able to connect, and giving you additional juggle hits in a combo. What’s more odd is that some of them will reset juggle hits even when they are not hitting. Saojin’s is a very good example of this, as it can lead to a 100% combo with only a few stocks. A one rep example is here: [media=youtube]8dVlZNYC5z8[/media]

This trick seems to help Saojin, Tiger, and Lotus Master the most, but a few other characters can make use of it as well (Monk and Huang).

And since I’ve seen no discussion of character balance in the game at all, I made up a makeshift tier list from the experience I’ve had with the game. I’m sure it’s not all that correct at all, so I hope anyone else with some solid game time will chime in on their opinions:

S+ Crane
S Reika, Snake, Huang, Monkey Boy, SaoJin
A+ Monk
A Tiger, Scorpion, Ghost Kick, Drunken
B Lotus

Here’s a brief breakdown of why:

S+ Tier
Crane
Pros: Has two practical infinites. Has fast ground and air projectiles and a good DP. Has unblockable setups for big damage. Both supers are very good. 214B+C Shadow attack is amazingly broken.
Cons: Weak high/low game, not that she needs one. Mostly short normals. Can chew through meter fast. Needs meter to be effective.

S Tier
Reika
Pros: Very good projectiles. Super good DP that leads to huge damage and is difficult to punish with anything strong. Frame advantage on many moves. Strong combos off anything. Lots and lots of combos and moves simply won’t connect on her.
Cons: Weak high/low game. No infinites. :S

Snake
Pros: Good pokes. Strong throw game and unblockable setups. Strong frame advantage on many moves. An okay DP and 63214P is an invincible ground attack. Very very good supers and shadow attacks. Easy 100% loops with ~3 stocks.
Cons: Nothing?

Huang
Pros: Shittons of damage off everything. Very tricky high/low/throw game. Huge loops. Can infinite half the cast from anywhere. Dive kick gives him good air control and crossups. Very good shadow attacks.
Cons: No true reversal attacks?

Monkey Boy
Pros: Extremely good projectiles. Possible to get random huge damage off Watermelons. Very good supers and shadow attacks. Easy 100% loops with ~3 super stocks.
Cons: Mediocre DP with short horizontal range. Will have trouble with people who can beat his projectile game.

Saojin
Pros: Builds a lot of meter. 214B+C Shadow Attack is great for pressure, escape, anything. Both supers are decent. Easy combos. 214P is a high damage poke. 100% loop for cheap off anything. 2A+B can crossup. DP isn’t foot invincible, but it doesn’t leave the ground so it can be canceled to 214B+C on block.
Cons: Nothing off throw. DP only has very short invincibility and is not invincible on the foot.

A+ Tier
Monk
Pros: Scary strong high/low mixups. Strong throws. Huge pokes. Very good projectiles. Good shadow attacks. Pound the Ground to punish anything at a distance. Most life of any character.
Cons: Big target.

A Tier
Tiger
Pros: Strong damage. Tackle gives +0 on block. Some big pokes. Difficult infinite but sets up from almost anything. Tricky 214B+C. Decent damage from command throw.
Cons: Big pokes are laggy. Big target. Tons of character specific stuff on him. 236236P super easy to do by accident and is very slow.

Scorpion
Pros: Very strong high/low mixup. Solid damage off throws. Frame advantage. Good mobility.
Cons: Mediocre shadow attacks. Mediocre damage output in general.

Drunken Master
Pros: Strong counter moves. Very strong supers. Roll will beat a lot of things and sets up for damage. Good command throw that can be OSed.
Cons: Infinite is unreliable. No free DP. Bad 214B+C.

Ghost Kick
Pros: Lots of solid moves. Very good AA. Big ass 6D poke. j.C is a huge crossup.
Cons: Weak High/Low game. DPs aren’t fully invincible. 214P is worthless.

B Tier
Lotus Master
Pros: Unblockable setups! Some very large pokes. Decent projectiles. Jumping throw. Good supers. Good air normals. 214B+C is very good.
Cons: Big target. No free DP. Works hard for damage. Chews through meter fast. Projectiles have long recovery and many characters have easy ways around them.

Long story short is that nobody seems unusably bad (Lotus is still pretty decent) but there’s a lot of really broken stuff in the game.

Anyway, because I was bored and interested to see what could be done, I developed a balance patch for the game that removes all of the practical infinites and greatly tones down all of the 100% loops, as well as a few other minor things. It’s far from finished but if you are interested in dicking around with it, you can grab it here: http://www.dragoninstall.com/junk/MartialMasters_Patch_vC_Beta5.rar

post of the year candidate. Amazing stuff.

Plexo_Tlipoca · December 6, 2009, 1:05pm

I agree with the tier list, Gwyrgyn has done an excellent job. But i dont know why would Lotus be worse than Scorpion…

What’s the original name of this game?

Gwyrgyn_Blood · December 7, 2009, 5:45am

Mostly for the stuff mentioned in that post. Scorpion has REALLY good mixups, and even gets free damage off his throw. Lotus doesn’t have great mixups, has laggy pokes, and his projectiles are made completely worthless by … probably over half the cast. Both characters are on the lower end of the damage dealing scale but both have some pretty good stuff going for them as well.

I feel Lotus overall has a harder time with a lot of stuff just because he’s kind of slow and doesn’t really have the damage or range to help make up for it. He also seems really meter dependent because his Supers are really useful, and he doesn’t seem to build meter real well.

Xing Yi Quan from what I recall. Might be spelled differently though?

Gwyrgyn_Blood · December 9, 2009, 7:39am

Well, here are a few interesting new things for Lotus:

421A - Gives you +4F on block.
421C - Gives you +10F on block. Yikes!

Combo at mid screen:

421C, c.C 6C …

In the corner:

c.C(1) 421C, c.C(1) 421C …

Yup, Lotus Master infinite. Only works pretty deep into the corner, and doesn’t work on some characters (IE the ones you crossup with 421C). It’s kind of hard to do because catching c.C on the first hit is a bit hard. But even if you mess up, you’ve still got them in a really bad spot.

The infinite is probably not that helpful but knowing these attacks are frame advantage probably is.

Redmyst · December 9, 2009, 10:39am

Ok just a random though here. Crane has a few weaknesses compare to Snake which so far has none. So why is Crane still S+Tier when Snake is S Tier?

Also could something be done about Tigers jumping animations? Avoiding fireballs is kinda difficult. If it can’t be done then oh well, I will just have to deal with it.