Many, many questions about sticks

Tech Talk
1

I am trying to learn a bit more about sticks before I either purchase one or attempt the long road to building one myself. I did a search for a lot of these questions, and believe it or not, the list below reflects a far smaller list then the original. These questions arise from reading the entire I love my custom stick thread and various other threads on the forum, including many of the links found in Shoo’s thread. I tried to organize them, but they are so varied that that some fell through. A lot of these are terminological or identification questions. (Paik4Life’s thread answered many before I posted here, but I have trouble knowing what I am looking just through a worded description, with so much variety of stick construction on these forums.) I would appreciate as much indepth information as you can provide over quick answers, if possible.

[LIST=1]
[]What does it mean to hack a controller?
[]what is a mitered and unmitered corner?
[]what type of gate is used commonly in SF machines?
[]Where can I find a blueprint or guide to the american layout of arcade machine, []using HAPP parts?
[]Have people been able to make made-for-PS3 sticks, using the sixaxis controller, or some other controller, without a converter, either wireless or non wireless? (hopefully the latter).
[]What type of gate is on the T5 Hori stick and the Street Fighter Anniversary stick?
[]Can someone list every brand of joystick besides HAPP, Sanwa, Seimistu, and Fanta sticks? (I know most are are crap, I just want to know what exists)
[]Is a gate and a restrictor the same thing?
[]Is it true that you can’t switch out the restrictor on a HAPP competition?
[]Is it possible to change the bat top on a HAPP stick (P360, Comp, Ultimate, Super) to: one of the other HAPP bat tops, a Sanwa ball top, a Seimitsu ball top, a Seimitsu bat top, or a Fanta bat top?
[]What is the difference between a top mounting and bottom mounting stick?
[]What is a project box? Can someone point to a pic with one in it?
[]What is a db15? What other db’s are there?
[]What is the difference between a quick disconnect and a non-quick disconnect, if those exist?
[]What angle is the basic capcom cabinet’s board (what holds he joystick/buttons) mounted at? I notice a slight angle on almost every machine I have seen.
[]What is a dust cover? (Besides the obvious; this was used in the context of plexiglass/lexan, but could have meant something else)
[]What are the pertinent differences between lexan and plexiglass? (I am sure this was asked before, so if there is a thread that talks about it, that would be great too - I couldn’t find it).
[]What other options are available for artwork covers besides lexan and plexiglass?
[]What does it mean to piggyback? I see it referenced all the time with dreamcast controllers.
[*]What is the difference between laminate and high pressure laminate? Can someone post a picture of a stick that uses laminate as opposed to something else? (I am having trouble visualizing what the outcome of using laminate is)
[/LIST]

Identification
[LIST=2]
[]Can someone identify for me the quick disconnect in one of these photos? And something that doesn’t use a quick disconnect?
[]What is used for the reddish wood color for the stick on the left, and the stick on the right?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/woodontheleftandontheright.jpg
[]What type of stick and buttons are these:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatstickisthismountedlow.jpg
And I assume that is an Xbox 360 headset coming out of the side, correct? (I never had an Xbox of any kind.)
[]What are A and B in this photo?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatsgoingoninsidehere.jpg
A is the wire connection, and B is the strip of white tubes. Also, is it possible to identify the buttons from here?
[]What stick and buttons are these? And what is that coming out of the stick? (A wireless xbox 360 controller, I assume)
ttp://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatisthisopening2koiwhatstickaswel.jpg
[]What type of wood or wood coloring is used here?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whattypeofwood.jpg
[]What type of stick and buttons are used here?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whattypeofstick.jpg
[]What type of stick and buttons are used here?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whattypeofstickandbuttons.jpg
[]What type of stick and buttons are used here?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatstick8.jpg
[]What type of buttons are used here?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatstick3.jpg
[]What type of stick and buttons?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatstick.jpg
[]What type of stick and buttons?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatstickisthis.jpg
[]What is this? What sort of adapter is that being pointed to?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatisthis3.jpg
[]What is this?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatisthis2.jpg
[]What is this for? (What is a D-SUB?)
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatisthis.gif
[]What are A, B and C in this photo? A is the tubing around the wires, B is the black box, and X is the yellow thing underneath the joystick
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatisthisthing.jpg
[]What is this?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatisthisstickingout.jpg
[]What is this adapter?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatisthisadapter.jpg
[]What is this adapter?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatconnectoristhis.jpg
[]What are A, B, C, and D?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whataretheseadapters.jpg
[]What is this brown thing here that appears to be on top of a controller’s PCB?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatarethemetalthings.jpg
[]What stick and buttons?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/t5stickmod3.jpg
[]How was this wood color and gloss achieved?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/nicewoodcolor.jpg
[]What type of stick and buttons are these?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/liketheslightconcavebuttons.jpg The buttons appear slightly concave, but not as concave as these:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/largerconcavebutons.jpg
[]What type of stick is this?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/likeshaftheight.jpg
[]How is this marble effect achieved?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/isthereawaytomakethismarbletypecoat.jpg
[]How are multi-colored buttons made like these?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/howdoyougetmixedbuttonslikeonthisst.jpg
[]What stick and buttons are these?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/greatstickcasestick2.jpg
[]How is this gloss and wood-like color acheived? I think it’s just paint here.
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/greatpolish.jpg
[]I am not sure if it is just the image or not, but this stick appears to have a great polish/gloss - how is it achieved?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/greatgloss2.jpg
[]Another great gloss - how is it done?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/greatgloss.jpg
[]What stick and buttons?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/goossticklook-whatisit.jpg
[]What are A, B, C and D? A is the screw apparatus holding the wires, B is the connecter to the screw apparatus, C is another screw apparatus but different from A, and D is some sort of PCB I can’t identify.
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/goossticklook-whatisit.jpg
[]What stick and buttons are these?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/DSC00417.jpg
[]This picture says something is dremeled… what is it to dremel, and what is it dremeled in here, exactly?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/dremeled.gif
[]This stick is at first a normal wood color, then made into a beautiful reddish wood color. How is it done? Also, what are the buttons and stick?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/arcade-sticks-poplar3.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/arcade-sticks-oak5.jpg
[/LIST]

Thanks for any help you can give.

2

Open a controller up, take out the printed circuit board(PCB) and sodler wires onto the copper pads that the buttons would hit in order tell the system that the button is pressed. You then run these wires up to the arcade buttons and joystick.

It means that the corner of the stick has an angle cut to it. Here is an example from one of the more recent sticks made by Kaytrim. You can see that the corners of the frame do not come to a straight 90 degree edge, but rather have a 45 degree cut, those are mitered corners. So unmitered corners would be when you just have a regular 90 degree edge.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/KaytrimsKustoms/Gold/FullShot.jpg

[/quote]

I cant say for sure, but my guess would be a square gate since that is the standard gate.

If you look around more on this site, like do a search to templates, you should be able to find something. If not, put up a post asking for an american layout template.

I know this one had its own number, but I am assuming it goes with the above question. If the layout is not for Happ parts, you can make it for Happ parts by decreasing the button hole size from 30mm(1-3/16") to 1-1/8".

Not as far as I have seen with what has shown up on this site. It might be possible, but I think you run into the same trouble as you do with a PS2 controller, where the analog buttons make it really hard to work with.

[quote]
What type of gate is on the T5 Hori stick and the Street Fighter Anniversary stick?[/qutoe]
Again I am not 100% sure, but the standard gate is a square one so my bet is that they come with square ones.

The only other ones I know of are Wico, which I think was bought out by Happ, or something like that. And then there is Crown, which is another Korean stick like the Fanta’s. Other than those I dont think anything else is even worth knowing about since they will just about never be used. But maybe someone else can name a few more for you.

Yes

You could, but I dont know what you would switch it out with. The difference between Happ and sanwa is that sanwa has a stationary restrictor where as Happ has the restrictor attached to the bottom of the joystick shaft. So you would have to find something that is the same size and shape as what the happ stick started with if you wanted to switch it out. And also, as far as I know, Happ doesnt make replace restrictors.

Not really. It might be if you modify the other shaft a heck of a lot, but as far as just taking one of the other shafts and throwing it in the happ stick, that isnt going to work. The only way I have seen to modify a Happ stick with a ball top or different bat top is to get a custom made shaft. I know at one point I saw a link to a site that did that, but I dont remember what it was. All that I remember is that the custom shafts werent cheap. They were probably as much or more than the stick itself.

Top mounting is when you cut a resessed area into the top wood panel using a router, and mount the stick on top of the panel. Bottom mounting is when you just screw or bolt the stick to the underside of the top panel. The reason for top mounting is because unless you have a rather thin top panel, you wont be able to get the recommended length of the stick above the top panel. The recommended length on japanese sticks is something like 25mm of the shaft, between the ball top and the top panel, should be showing.

A project box is when you take your stick and hook it up to a pin connector, like a 9 pin or 15 pin connector. Then you run a cable from the connector to a project box(a small black plastic box labled as a project box, commonly bought at an elecrtoncs store such as Radio Shack). Making your stick this way means that you dont have to open up the stick if you want to change the system that the stick works with. Instead you just have to make up a new project box with a different PCB in it.

I dont have time right now to search for a picture of one, sorry.

db15 is the pin connector I was talking about before. You use them when you want to use a project box or if you want to make the cord detachable.
Wikipedia to the rescue:

[quote]
What is the difference between a quick disconnect and a non-quick disconnect, if those exist?[/qutoe]
Quick disconnects(QDs) are little things you crimp onto the end of your wires and slide ontot he terminals of the switches on the arcade buttons and joystick. If you dont use QDs then you are going to just solder the wire right to the switch terminals.

No clue

A dust cover is the round plastic piece that you see at the bottom of the joystick. It is used to cover up the hole that you had to drill to fit the stick through the top of the stick. If you go back and look at any stick you will know what I mean because every stick has one.

They cost about the same, I think plexi is a little cheaper. Lexan is supposed to be easier to work with but gets scratches easier. Plexi is harder to work with, if you arent careful with it when cutting then it can crack on you, but its supposed to be harder to scratch up.

Personally I have only worked with plexi, and havent had any problems with it. you just have to make sure that it is well supported before you go drilling it.

[quote]
What other options are available for artwork covers besides lexan and plexiglass?

[quote/]

You could just laminate the artwork and glue it onto the top. You can get the artwork printed on a sheet of vinly, which they can do at any printing place like staples or something like that. Then you should be able to just stick, or glue that on and it should be okay. I happen to like plexi though.

I am guessing you got this from the UPCB topic. The UPCB is great if you know how to put it together and use it. I have one in my stick. Because of the way the dreamcast conrtoller communicates with the system, its not possible to directly program the controller into the chip that runs the UPCB, so instead Toodles made a way that you could hook up the DC PCB to the UPCB so that you could still hook the DC cable up to the stick in the same fashion you would with any other system that is UPCB compatable. Its called piggybacking because the UPCB is using the DC PCB to do all the work for it, kind of like how a little kid would get a piggyback ride.

No clue, never heard of it.

I hope that helps. I would go through the other questions right now, but I have other work that needs to get done.

3

The way you talk about the way the edges are cut are not miters. What you are describing are edge treatments. In this case it is called a chamfer. In my other sticks I have used a round over treatment.

Here is an example of the two different styles of corner joints.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/[IMG]http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/KaytrimsKustoms/WIP/Joints-1.jpg[/IMG]

In this pic you can see the Miter clearly in the corner. This box has a round over treatment on the edges.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/[IMG]http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/KaytrimsKustoms/WIP/Joints.png[/IMG]

4

You’re right. I should know that, I was just thinking of something else at the time.

So yeah, forget about what I said about mitered corners.

5

Don’t worry about it. You did a nice job tackling all those questions.

TTFN

6

wow,

most of that could be found if you just searched a little,

some i didn’t even know, so carry on!

7

yes wizard did it

square

qd’s are like little clips that slide onto the button prong, this is helpful when testing and repairing sticks. the other option of wiring buttons is to solder the wire onto the button.

Identification

#3 doesn’t use quick disconnects, all the rest of the sticks from what is shown have qds inside.

maple? mahogany? you can look at wood types and match em ya know

happ stick (competition?) and happ ultimate buttons h also the headset is for the xbox live, and the stick is a xbox 1 joystick

like i said before, solder and b are the european version of barrier strips (forgot what paik called em) the buttons are sanwas.

happ stick and ultimate buttons and thats a vmu (memory card) for the dreamcast

look around.

i believe its a fanta joystick with sanwa or fanta buttons, ask finkle

happ joystick with convex buttons

sanwa buttons , sanwa stick

fanta joystick sanwa buttons

happ joystick happ competition buttons

happ joystick sanwa buttons

its a db9/db15 clipped on the end of a dreamcast cord, so the joystick won’t have a cord dangling from it

dsub 15, vga connection = 15 pins, 3 rows of 5 pins we would normally use 2 rows one of 8 one of 7

it says right in the picture, its a detachable ps2 cord. its to add to the cleanliness of the stick.

a d-sub is a type of electrical connection, like usb, ethernet,ps/2, etc.

a. quick disconnects, the red and blue is the plastic shielding around the qd
b. jesus…it says right on the box “2.4GHZ wireless controller” its probably the battery holder or something
c. a restrictor/gate.

dsub socket with a dsub plug, plugged in.

detachable ps2 cord.

do you even play video games? nintendo gamecube port.

a.dsub, for instance in this pic its a db25,
b.usb project box
c. psx project box
d.looks like male to male dsub cord (plugs the joystick into the project box

thats a homemade upcb

happ and seimitsu buttons

good sanding, and glossing ? ask the fucking stickmaker (chippermonky)

guess what, happ stick and ultimate buttons.

its the angle and lighting

sanwa stick and sanwa buttons?

thats a cheap overlay (no offense)

swap plungers and bezels

sanwa stick and happ buttons

im gonna bitch at you in a second, but its sanded, primered and painted good thats all it is.

maple wood? ask final_cut

isnt that another zombie_cpt stick? good sanding,primering, and painting.

sanwa stick and buttons.

err?

sanwa stick and happ buttons

yea… jaxel builds SLIM sticks, so he sanded/grinded down shit to squeeze in. if you want to know WHATS dremeled, simple the restrictor plate.

isn’t that called staining? ask fucking finkle.

alright im being nice by answering your questions but guess what the reason i could answer them was because the posts that originally had the pictures you took had the information you asked for ON the same post. i really don’t get how you can look over these threads and not find the answers for most of the questions you’re looking for. i mean we have a search function ya know??

you easily win the award for worst tech talk poster this year, far surpassing the dozens of “can you mod the t5 stick?” threads.

8

As much as I’d absolutely love to see such a thing, that ain’t it. That’s a board Chaosdragon13 made. Each of those DIP switch blocks represents one of the buttons, and each one of the switches on each block represent a button on the playstation controller. If you wanted the jab button to press X on the playstation, you flip the X switch on the Jab switch block. Same with every other button combination you could want. Its a way to allow for remapping the physical buttons to different playstation buttons without rewiring anything or dealing with rearranging quick disconnects. Nice and easy switches and your stick is remapped however you’d like.

Commander, if you’re interested in such a thing, I believe he has one for sale or could be commissioned into making one.

9

Suzo makes/made some nice sticks, like the Suzo Inductive and Suzo 500

10

Something I noticed in that last set of pictures, the ones that are stained. I believe the side shown before staining is actually a totally different piece of wood. If you look at the grain in the wood before its stained, and the grain after its stained, its totally different. Staining would only bring out the grain, not totally change it, so I wonder if something didnt go right when it was getting stained the first time around.

11

**
Quote:
Is it possible to change the bat top on a HAPP stick (P360, Comp, Ultimate, Super) to: one of the other HAPP bat tops, a Sanwa ball top, a Seimitsu ball top, a Seimitsu bat top, or a Fanta bat top?
Not really. It might be if you modify the other shaft a heck of a lot, but as far as just taking one of the other shafts and throwing it in the happ stick, that isnt going to work. The only way I have seen to modify a Happ stick with a ball top or different bat top is to get a custom made shaft. I know at one point I saw a link to a site that did that, but I dont remember what it was. All that I remember is that the custom shafts werent cheap. They were probably as much or more than the stick itself.**

This place I stumbled upon sells custom joysticks for HAPP. You can buy just the shaft and combo a super bat (which is more squat) for a comp stick, or comp bat (slender bat) for a super base, or get a balltop. I just ordered a balltop have yet to try it. And it’s pretty cheap. I believe the balltop cost me around $10 bucks with shipping.

www.tornadoterrys.com

As for cross-brand joystick switching–I doubt that’s possible.

12

Thanks Chaosdragon, Buttonm4sh, Kaytrim, Zoppa, Toodles and Cue16 for your help. I really, really appreciate it. I am a very new at this so everything helps. And Buttonm4sh… I really did read those entire threads, and spent literally days going through this forum (more than 36 hours of just reading), and keeping a document alongside marking questions and answering them as I went along. I did many, many searches, but sometimes kept the question due to my own confusion, even if it were labled. I have never seen a project box before, for example. Heck, the post alone took more than 1 and a half hours to make and format.
The questions about glossing I thought of making a separate thread for (and probably will), as I wanted to know the basics of how it was done and different techniques. As for the wood and wood coloring questions, I know very little about wood varieties, and after seeing Finkle’s stick with the “staining” I thought it might be possible all of the sticks I was seeing were stained and therefore not naturally red. So please go easy on me here.

Would it be the Tornado Terry link above? If not, if you ever pass by it, please let me know.

Sorry, I am not quite getting what it is to dremel, and I can’t identify the restrictor plate - I have never seen the inside of a stick before except through photos on this forum. Is a restrictor plate and a restrictor the same thing? What I see is that it appears the buttons are on a lower plane while the joystick is on a higher plane in the photo. If carving out things like this were dremeling, wouldn’t it be the buttons that are dremeled, assuming it came from one peice of wood?

Number three is this: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatstickisthismountedlow.jpg which doesn’t feature the inside of a stick. Did you mean this or something else? http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/Klern/whatsgoingoninsidehere.jpg

These questions remain, or were answered with a something akin to “not sure:”

–What is the difference between laminate and high pressure laminate? Can someone post a picture of a stick (or piece of wood in general) that uses laminate as opposed to something else? (I am having trouble visualizing what the outcome of using laminate is)
(I wikipedia’d it, but it was all about what laminating is without pics)

—Where can I find a blueprint or guide to the american layout of arcademachine?
(I found a couple of links here searching for templates, but both threads ended unsuccessfully as well. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=130239&highlight=happ+template as well as this guy: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=135010&highlight=happ+template)

—Can someone confirm that the buttons in this photograph:

are the same as the buttons in this one?:

or this one?
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...mountedlow.jpg
These all look concave, but flatter to different degrees.

—What type of wood or wood coloring is used here?

New
—Are all buttons from HAPP, Sanwa and Seimitsu capable of swaping plungers and bezels to make a multicolored button, (respective to in their own brand and button type)?

13

A Dremel is a small electric tool with an assortment of bits. Extremely usefull tool to have. If he ‘dremelled’ it, he used a dremel to acheive that cut/drill/sand/whatever he did to the piece.

A restrictor just restricts the movement of the stick. One the sanwa JLF’s, its a clear piece of plastic that is removable from the rest of the assembly; most people just call it a restrictor plate. Sanwa JLW’s have one, too, that is functionality identical, but I believe screwed on instead of snapped on. On some seimitsu’s, the restrictor is a flat green piece of plastic that can be unscrewed and reattached, giving the user 3 choices of retriction (“2 way” for either up+down or left+right movement, such as Galaga or pong, “4 way” for up/down/left/right diamond shaped, NO diagonals, for Pac-Man and older games and “8 way” for all modern games.) This could be called a restrictor plate too. On almost all other sticks (non-sanwa Hori sticks, all Happs sticks, etc) the piece that restricts movement is part of the major assembly, and isn’t removed or modified.

If you mean as in the laminate that goes onto kitchen counter tops, that’s a question for Home Depot, not here. If you mean cellophane lamination, that’s a kinko’s question. ‘laminate’ is too general a term for anyone to understand what you mean. Its like saying ‘plastic’, when you could mean silly putty, stiff ass ABS, flexible mylar, whatever.

First picture is Happ’s Competition buttons, which are convex, are prefered by most players as the best in American style buttons. Second picture is some sort of concave ones; Happs has at least two different models of concave buttons; if you go that route, get the ones with the horizontal mounted microswitches. They are just better contruction that the vertical. But, concave buttons hurt hands, in my opinion. Third picture doesn’t work for me.

Stain? Varnish? Polyurethane? There are tons of different wood treating options. Check the appropriate aisle in Home Depot.

Yup. If its the same button but in different colors, you can swap the plungers out and around easily.

14

thats the one. that one is soldered on.

that is hurting my eyes and confusing me, the jab button looks like a concave the rest look kinda like convex but depends on the angle

>< argh.