Don’t pass off your platform of choice as the reason the game is still alive.
3s is still alive because we the arcade players went out and contributed to the major communities that kept it alive, via money, time and effort. Not just online circle jerks that are about a game that is not 3s.
Also, get the fuck out of here before you start another Offline vs Online re-enactments. This would be like the 5th one.
Also, OE is not better than PS2 port. Sorry.
My friend said he’s pretty sure he can set up an LED to light up when you hit a button on one of my old hori sticks, so I’ll sit down and run lag tests over here too. I don’t doubt ESN’s work but it’s always good to have multiple results to confirm. best I can do is point my iPhone at the screen but I believe it captures at 60 fps so I assume that should be fine. let me know if not.
getting a bit ahead of myself here but let’s assume ESN’s tests are accurate and we can presumably get the same offline input lag on emulator vs console. so after that the big thing is the speed question. to me the speed on ShmupMAME felt pretty fast versus both console ports. anyone else have the same (or differing) perception?
I messed with the game speed slider as suggested by papasi in the ST thread. If I’m seeing this correctly, it actually just slows everything down, not just processor speed. so it may be like trying to fine tune something with a giant hammer. I turned the game speed down to 97% and I’m pretty sure the pitch of character select music went down a step or two lol.
Also I suspect getting audio latency down to arcade or console levels may be a problem as well. but we can cross that bridge when we come to it. I think we may be able to figure out some tests for this, I’ve got at least one in mind.
I’ll start working at getting the LED set up on my stick. hopefully I’ll have tests to confirm ESN’s within a month.
I’m hoping if we do some legwork and take our best guess, some of you other arcade playing guys can confirm or deny how close it is. it may be all a fool’s errand and we’ll come back at the end to “there is still no substitute for CPS3” but it’s worth investigating at least. this is of course all for offline play, it’s not even in the realm of thinking about it to worry about making online the same as offline.
the input may be the same but that doesn’t mean the output and everything is identical.
they do not feel identical. we’d have to make some blind-test bullshit to really know though.
97% messes with audio, but 98% doesn’t. Purely from hand tests, at 99% feels the closest to OE, 98% seems to make a huge difference with certain things…
Mainly I was testing TTTH. On OE, on a good day, I can do about 1/20. At 99% for SMame, I did 11 out of 150-200 attempts (better than expected). At 98%, at one point I did 5 in a row. That’s a huge difference, although certain things still felt off just compared to OE, like the occasional sound being dropped, like whiffs or brief music jumps. But it wasn’t that bad input wise. This feeling would most likely change if I was playing 2P, with that second player actually doing something besides standing there getting cr.Fierced… So my choice for an available practice alternate to OE will be 98/99% ShmupMAME.
did anyone try Suparc/Arclive offline? its really good 
dunno what emulator it uses though… http://bbs.suparc.com/index.php?styleid=15
If you can, try to use a camera with 120fps (or higher), like gopro3 (i think) and a monitor with a better refresh time than mine (60fps too i think), to get rid of video artefacts which make most tests not really usable (led half on, screen half refreshed, etc) or give false positive (i got 2 frames for some tries, 4 for some others)…
Another method i thought about yesterday, is to use sound, by measuring time between impact of button and sound of move in game (far hk). Won’t give us a clear number for input delay, but it should be a way more precise tool to compare fba/mame/oe, assuming sounds and video are always strictly correctly synched (yeah, pretty big assumption, but worth try it IMO)…
Also, i can also do tests on arcade with this ^^
I no longer believe that CRTs are a better choice for modern PC builds. However, they do run emulated 3s faster than the console version(PS3/XBOX).
ESN’s tests make sense, because he has run all these emus (some of these versions are outdated, ex. GGPO’s FBA, so it is supposed to work better on an older OS like XP-SP3)
on XP-SP3 which is not a resource hog like Windows 7 32/64Bit and it works optimally with outdated hardware (CRT monitor, older GPUs, slow RAM 664-800Mhz etc), as well.
Emulators run 3s faster as far as speed goes, it’s a fact. What’s so wrong about that? If you play often on a cab and you feel that your timing/muscle memory is ruined, then DON’T play emu 3s. Simple enough.
Play the medium you feel is close to the cab or it works better on your system. That includes the 3s port you like or an emulator which you can find a way to configure and play 3s the way you want.
Many choices, more doable solutions, less fuss about nothing.
3SOE uses the ggpo technology. If 3rd strike GGPO was bad and unpopular, they would not even try to implement this feature on the console.
You can’t deny ggpo and its community contribution to the new port.
Offline vs Online, that’s not what we debate here.
…
See, I’m glad you didn’t leave out the fact that it is popular. Also, did you forget that ponder is co-founder of this website, whose name and logo/slogan is attached to all of the fighting games that made Capcom big money this console generation? I.E. SF4, SFXT, MARVEL3.
GGPO is as good as it gets for online 3s. It’s either that or a straight MAME port without truly adjusted features like on SuperArc and such. You could also try and play that XBOX1 release of the game, if you want.
Support the non-Ponder version of the game or the Ponder version of the game…? To show an ounce of gratitude or not show gratitude…that is the question. Let me Ponder this for a moment…
I am not denying that people play on ggpo. Shit, even I find myself playing on ggpo. But even you have to admit that the experience on there doesn’t reach the levels that it does offline. Moments like the Daigo parry(wait a second…), the Pyrolee version of the Daigo parry, FFA Ranbats, Chinatown Tournaments, SBO, Japanese Tournaments, etc. I’m almost certain they didn’t decide to make 3s simply because the handful of players that plays on ggpo enjoy playing it on ggpo. I will concede that they used ggpo because it was the better choice regarding netcode given the disappointing precedent they left themselves.
You know what? This post is already too long and I’m sleepy.
You win. GGPO kaillera client made OE happen and that means that ggpo is good and arcade had nothing to do with OE.
PS. The combat announcer on ggpo is either fucking retarded or the sound files run on some weird loop that keeps getting cut-off and reset at the wrong time because everything he says is way off. Then again, today he was speaking differently. Might be because I tried fewer parries…
PPS. The only contribution I noted ggpo had exclusively was the over-abundant use of jab, cr. jab, and akuma tatsu into non-confirm fierce srk. Low forward meta game on ggpo is really weird too.
PPPS. Considering that he had no access to the innards of the game…he did a pretty good job with it. But I’m still too much in love with arc3s to give in fully to ggpo. Also, no one ever wants to play me.
If this game gets rereleased on XBOX1, I might give it a try. The PS3 version is fine atm.
Supporting 3s in its latest port is the best way to try to bring the 3s scene back. Funny, that you ask yourself these questions, when you prefer the PS2 version over 3SOE.
About online 3s, there is no undisputable winner. We have seen laggy or tolerable games on both platforms.
In the end, it is a personal preference. I don’t play online anymore either. The new 3soe patch is promising, though.
That’s a good point. Of course, 3s online does not reach the standards of offline. You have to adjust your timing to lag, even at the most “lag free” connections.
This is getting off topic, though.
Off topic.
Bro, I think you read the first part wrong. Like, this isn’t an issue of omg is he intelligent enough for me to believe. It’s more about you coming in here and trying to set a precedent that favors your favored platform.
I prefer PS2 3s to OE because it lacks that latency issue. It’s a bit faster, sure, but that beats having to slow down and speed and slow down and different points in the game. It really makes sense. It could be because I’ve only played OE on laggy monitors, though, but thus far I support PS2 over OE.
No, you have misinterpreted my posts. I have repeated this many times. Emulation is software. When it does not run well on some systems (usually outdated), that does not mean it’s bad or all emulators are bad.
It does not perform well on that system specifically.
There are so many factors that are getting involved when you run something on your PC.
If you are one of those users who can’t build your PC or install the software for their PC optimally (drivers, directx, OS installation, etc), then you won’t see any boost in stability and performance on anything.
This is where I have stated in the past, consoles are a better alternative. Especially, on these situations. Also, noone can verify the validity of any test without listing the PC systems specs in detail.
Glad to see an arcade 3s player like you to enjoy an outdated port despite its faster speed (the inputs are freaking fast, as well). About your OE issue on laggy monitors, it not necessarily OE fault.
It could be a limitation on the console’s technology. PS4/XBOX1 are coming soon. Have faith.
You should try 3soe on CRT dander. It’s definitely the closest to arcade I’ve ever played. (minus the gay visuals, short meters, and trashcan sound fx)
Just the fact that combo timing is more similar to arcade and the Gouki and Q unthrowable glitches are present make the port far more arcade perfect than to ps2.
yeah i have to agree really.
it seems to feel the best.
so having been partly responsible for taking this thread off topic a few months ago, I’ll do my best to get us back on!
I believe it is possible to (kinda) do both these things with FBA-RR combined with MacroLUA. I think the setup should be straightforward for that off a simple google search but let me know if not and I can post the process.
MacroLUA allows you to record a series of inputs and play them back once or on a loop. you record with a keyboard press, then use another keyboard press to play it back. so obviously this is great for counterpoke practice. Record 5 seconds of any normal or random set of normals and just loop it, and now you have your controlled environment for being able to consistently counterpoke a character from whatever spacing you want.
you can kinda make this work for hit confirm practice too though it’s not as useful as OE I think. you could sit in crouch the whole time and just randomly shift the stick from down back to down, and this would simulate crouch random block. but you have extra hitstun from that so it’s not perfect. I guess maybe you could shift the stick from neutral to down back but it would look goofy and you’ll probably be able to use more visual cues this way. so it’s not a true confirm on random block, and not as useful as OE, but still something.
something that I think should work but I haven’t tried yet:
you can get both characters to a specific area of the screen, save state, then record inputs, ending with load state. this would allow you to loop a set of inputs from any part of the screen and any specific situation. I can think of a couple cool uses for this - maybe you want to practice an oki setup against different wakeup options (or vice versa), or maybe you’re learning Genei Jin and you want to figure out how you stop Chun from mashing jab through it. lots of potentially useful applications. OE sort of has this as well but I think this way is more elegant.
I know this works for FBA-RR, not sure if you can use it for MAME as well. I assume you can. if you don’t own OE I think this is a reasonable substitute, and in some cases more useful. you can add input display with another LUA script as well.
obviously YMMV depending on what you think of emulator 3s but I think this at least beefs up what was already described in this thread, which was essentially “here’s a way to practice your combos on a standing dummy.”
also wanted to mention you can also add that thing that allows you to see parry window and the charge stuff on top of everything else if you’re using FBA-RR. I’m sure there’s something really complex you could make of all this if you really wanted to.
Sorry for the bump but I was practicing combos in SF3 on FightCade and I was wondering if MAME is part of FightCade’s GPPO based stuff. If not, I’ll have to install MAME separately and use the ROM to practice combos.
Right now, I’m doing it the hard way by putting a coin in the thing and restarting a new Bo3. I just want to check if it’s possible to do this for FightCade so that I can save a lot of time for practicing combos.
On FightCade they do tournaments every now and then so I want to practice and not wash out in the first round. This training dummy thing would really help me out.
Mame is it’s own thing. Uses the same roms though. Just try it out if you really wanna train.
You can use this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE27xe0QM64 if you don’t want to set up MAME and new roms, but Shmupmame is preferable to FBA in pretty much every way