i’d say that if you’re constantly able to dash->grab people after they whiff something from distance, you’re not playing very good people.
just one question arlieth, why is her cr.strong not worth using? priority?
re: c.Strong
Lower priority, very vulnerable recovery time, slow startup time, bad hitboxes on her own body. Because she leans her head forward into the attack, she could get pegged in the face by a standing roundhouse by half the characters in the game, despite her reach.
Against people I play, I only have time for a neutral throw, not a karakusa, after dashing in.
guess I should clarify, I meant dash in only as that, no follow up. I was just wondering if that’s a good method of getting into makoto’s happy fun super number one range.
Ehh… iffy. You and I both know Makoto dashes HELLUVA far. Too far, sometimes.
At near-point-blank ranges, the only way you’ll be able to connect the SA 1 against, say, Ken or Chun would be a C.Short -> Hayate xx SA1, or C.Jab x2, and even then it’s a crapshot. You’re better off at intermediate ranges (2/3rds of Makoto’s width) where your pokes are safer.
Furthermore, Makoto has some fairly wide frames because of her stance, making it easier to throw her, especially while she crouches. No, I’d say Makoto’s actually better off with the distance game while using the SA 1, using dashes only when the hit is guaranteed or to avoid being crossed up, mixed in with liberal faked Hayates.
Even if you were to dash from fullscreen to close distance, her walking speed (or lack thereof) and very short back-dash range make it VERY hard for you to maintain proper range against agile characters such as Ken, Yun/Yang, Oro, Urien, Elena, etc. DOUBLE that threat if they have good kara-throws.
That’s my two cents on the matter, anyways.
SAII juggle combo
After Arlieth’s explaination, I finally done the combo! (So proud of myself…) Anyway, the combo is:
SAII xx sj. toward + forward axe kick, wait, reverse dp+strong xx sj. torward + fierce.
The way that works for me is:
- Do the forward axe kick as soon as you jump.
- The strong Fukiage will be reversed, ie. against the direction of SAII. The wait before the Fukiage is to wait until Makoto actually lands.
- After Fukiage, the combo will end at about the peak of flight of your opponent. That means you will have to get the last hit in as soon as possible. The only move I know of that can reach that high is the jump toward fierce. Hit fierce as soon as you jump. I think an axe kick can also reach that high, but I cannot do it fast enough.
- On all the characters I tried this combo on, they bounce from the fukiage in the direction of SAII, ie. the 2 xx sj. are in the same direction. The only one I think that might be different is Q, which I did not get to try the combo on.
I am not sure of the damage it does, but I think on Ryu from zero stun this combo got the stun gauge to almost complete full (a strong will stun him afterward!) It is still pretty hard to do consistantly though. All these leads to a question for Arlieth: for the last fierce to connect, we want to bounce the opponent as low as possible. So will it be better to use the fierce fukiage that comes out slower than strong? I never finished the combo with fierce fukiage, but I know I can connect the fierce fukiage. Thanks in advance.
You CAN use Fierce Fukiage instead of Strong Fukiage, but the timing’s even weirder.
Personally, I haven’t done the combo all that much lately. But I say it’s better to get the safer Strong Fukiage than to gamble it on the Fierce Fukiage.
can u check if it stuns with fierce???
Strong and Fierce uppercuts do EXACTLY the same stun.
one strange thing, when you do the Karakusa-fierce-SAII-Axe-Fukiage combo against Remy, if you use the short version of karakusa, it won’t stun him unless the last j.fierce connects.
recently, i prefer this combo to the SAII-fukiage-axe b’cuz you may get an extra j.fierce if you are lucky
Question about her axe kick…
Okay…
Is the roundhouse version of her axe kick the only one that will trade hits w/ dragon punches and what not?
Also, what is the timing ont he kick if i am looking to stuff moves… Sometimes DPs get me and im not sure if its because i am doing the kick to early or too late. Is there a bit of start up time to the kick where she is open to take damage?
random makoto trick of the day.
Against ibuki or akuma. if you have SAII ready to burn, anytime they throw an air projectile (be it fireball or dagger), you can SAII (roundhouse usually) and peg them on their recovery when they land. OLD OLD OLD trick.
weird shit yesterday, ken does EX hurricane kick to cross up, I somehow do short SAII, he passes through me on my 1 frame of invincibility (only conclusion, unless the hitbox on his feet is weird), he lands, I land on top of him with SAII. So, YAY, I actually used that 1 frame of bullshit invincibility!
The only difference between the axe kicks is damage, startup and how much it pulls your forward. Since it does so much damage, trading with moves is usually in your favor.
God damit, i didnt even know:bluu: anyway
someone told me that if you do f+strong and (i think it has to connect) it connect, you get a free karakusa, is that true?
er… karakusa is never free, because you can’t grab people out of hitstun (pity ;P).
forward+strong is one of the setups for a kara-karakusa. after doing one, there’s enough distance for the short to whiff but close enough for the (kara) karakusa to connect.
i know you didn’t ask for my opinion, but i don’t think it’s very good.
hope this helps.
its all good, thanks man. I thought it wouldnt work but i wanted to double check.
Sorry if this is already known but,
If you are playin ken and you cross him up, do not hit strong or whatever and do the SAII. Ken players always try to grab or poke or whatever. Todays random Makoto Trick:)
yep
INO the japanese player I believe has the best makoto. I saw his makoto at NEC3 and it dominated players. double perfect justin wong and arturo. He also dominated with her at Ncubed . If any of you can get a vid of his matches I would try cause his makoto is of the hook. the only place where I know of vids of his makoto are on the NEC3 DVD and on the Japanese 5 on 5 tourney. So I would highly advise you guys make it your duty to seek these vids out and learn from IMO the greatest makoto player in the world.
random question.
After SAII, dash, Fukiage, is it possible to do two Hayates?
I dont think INO played in the Jap 5 on 5 . The makoto in that was J. But yeah INO is probably the best with mak.
I would really underestimate the C.Short->Hyate xx SA1. Its soo easy to do and still retains decent damage.
The other thing I have a lot of luck with against ken up close is C. Forward -> SA1, although this is a lot less reliable against chun it seems.
1st point: after SA 2, Fukiage, you can only get ONE Hayate, not two.
2nd point: As for Makoto vs Ken… harder match at high level. Makoto’s C.Forward has so much recovery time that if whiffed, Ken could poke with the C.Forward and get a free super. Don’t rely on C.Forward exclusively unless you know you’re close enough to make him block it. Dont forget to toss in C.Strongs if you’re playing the turtle-poke game, if only to throw off the Ken player’s range. But don’t use it as a solid poke, it won’t replace the C.Forward that way.
isnt it genreally accepted that c.forward > c. strong? seems like you have alot more options when using c. forward.