Making games more accessible: Links

Wat.

The discrepancy between hitstun and blockstun in SF4 is almost universally 3 frames. Any one frame or two frame link (which is the vast majority) therefore has a gap, i.e. they are not true blockstrings. People have abused this fact for years.

As for punishment options being very low… Even high level players will often mash dp in between tough links when they are being hit. If the opponent screw up the link you get dp > FADC > ultra. That is not, by any stretch of the imagination a ‘low punishment option’ for something as relatively innocent as attempting a link.

I’ve seen a post saying this and another post saying you can still link lights from mediums. Also I don’t believe chained lights not being true block strings until I see it for myself. It makes no functional sense and only enhances the problem SF4 had. I pretty much have to hear both things from a reliable source.

Speaking of nonsense, what happened to your husbando xes or whatever was his name?

You can link mediums from lights but not vice versa. So you can do something like cr.mk, cr.lk xx lightning legs with Chun, but not the other way around.

Chained lights not being true block strings comes from reports that people were getting reversaled out of them in the Gamescom build.

In any case, everything about SFV’s builds seems to point to Capcom wanting people to play the game at mid-ranges mostly with medium and heavy pokes. For example, pressure from Chun seems to come more from using standing fierce (safe when spaced right) or back+fierce (safe on block), while her main mix-up comes from a single low jab into either kara-throw or back+fierce.

That said, this all just probably being tested in the beta builds, so if you want, you can just complain to Combofiend, since he’s now an associate producer on the game.

My experience is that SF4 players (for example when they’re playing my game Shattered or KOF) always press chainable normals very late because they are trying to link them, because that’s what they’re used to, having to link in order to be able to cancel them in SF4. I wouldn’t be surprised that they were actually linking (or cancelling REALLY late) and that was creating gaps.

For chainable lights to not be a perfect blockstring that would mean that a light attack is negative on block or that there is a hardcoded ‘not a blockstring’ flag. I think both are extremely unlikely.

[s]In my experience, most typical BnB options involving links (they more or less all do in SFIV) are true block strings, or have a very easy alternative to make them true blockstrings. It would probably be even better for the game if they were even more solidified as true block strings, to stop players from even being tempted to mash DP (Can’t believe I’m saying that, SFIV’s melee pressure is a wreck). It’s a silly concept to have a game with loads of invincibility, build around links, and then also make the reversal buffer 20x longer than any SF game before it. There is so much wrong with that design concept – SFIV really is poorly designed in so many ways that people have just sort of gotten used to over the years.

Damage output on a single reversal is pretty typical, much like any other game. SFIV as a whole has a very low damage output. Yet, you are right, it does have probably one of the most potent, obnoxious and safe(Seriously why!?) reversal damage outputs of any fighter before it. Simply due to FADCs being so safe on dash-ins, even in ultra, where they are finally unsafe – just barely. Again, poor design concept, that took them until Ultra to finally realize it was a bad design decision, and they barely fixed it. I’m amazed that reversals don’t have some sort of massive damage penalty and scaling on them to prevent this sort of usage. Of course, that then punishes players for reversaling as a punish instead. Blah, well [/s]

I’m stopping myself. I’ve ranted about SFIV enough for one lifetime. Using it as an example of poor design is so easy, but it also requires me to talk about it, which lessens my sanity. So many things I could say or use as examples, but doing so in text takes so long. So yes, potential reversal damage is high in SFIV, for… some of the cast, you are right. A problem with many solutions never achieved, and a design problem that forces good players to mash.

In response to light chains not being a true blockstring in SFV, that just sounds very strange to me. In-fact, it seems almost impossible unless lights are ridiculously negative. They would have to have equal or less frames of blockstun as the start-up for a jab for that to even be the case, or as phoenixnl said, be hardcoded to not be true blockstrings. You sure people didn’t just get V-reversaled? If it is just a test for the beta, to see how it plays like that, then I welcome it. I want them to experiment with the game’s design before launch. I’m actually sad it only has a couple betas.

In another game, I might have found this sort of change kind of interesting, as not being a true blockstring means auto-guard won’t take effect, so reversaling out would be difficult. However, SFV has an input buffer like SFIV, so it would be very easy to do. The less temptations players have to mash to victory the better. In 3S, your *entire ***goal ** is to force your opponent to do something stupid so you can punish them; against a good player, that could take multiple rounds or more! In SFIV and Rising Thunder, both riddled with invincibility and such, you are instead bombarded by silly decisions at all possible locations. It’s very odd for me to deal with, it really is. I want that temptation to fade away. I want players to look for the proper hole in someone’s offense, and get out the honest way. No more bait fighter IV mindset, and enough of the Baiting Thunder shenanigans already plaguing that game. (It is loads easier to punish someone in that game at least.)

SFV needs to require a new mindset to do well in it, and I pray it succeeds in that regard, even if that is a bit off-topic for this thread.

This. That’s why I don’t believe any reports coming from gamescom unless it’s from an older player. Also there were conflicts in what was reported. Like I said, it makes no functional sense for the game to play that way.

The thing with chained lights is that I find it difficult to actually chain them.
The timing on that is fucking weird at least in the online beta version of the game.

nevermind

I think that SF4, with all the option-selects, has actually removed a lot of the relevant decisions from the game.

EDIT (seems relevant to the hitconfirm discussion):