Maki Strategies and Matchups

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
21

all of maki’s AA normals cannot beat yama’s j.fwd. it’s riduculous, if you really need to AA him use the KKK and abuse it.
i think you’ll just have to play poke war with s.fwd vs his s.rh(which i havne’t tried yet, but it looks like a disadvantage for maki). usually i’d do a lot of small jump rh/fierces, but you’re A-groove so i’m not quite sure. i guess you can do wall hops(low to ground qcb+lp) to great in on yamazaki at a weird angle.

for sagat. her s.rh is decent against sagat’s j.rh, however, if you eat a counterhit j.rh you might as well give up cuz that shit hurts when he easily comboes into super.

you can try to use s.fierce to push sagat’s whiff normals, but be careful with it, cuz if you whiff, sagat can do the same thing back.

22

repost from the general discussion

C-maki vs Honda

C-maki (yes, C-MAKI) does VERY well against honda. C-maki can literally play hit and run the entire round and her attributes get her out of stupid honda tricks and 50/50 guessing games.

-C-maki obviously has air-block, you can use that to punish accordingly (i don’t have my DC to test what works, i’ll edit sometime). her lofty jump makes normal or super jumping backwards to bait a headbutt quite feasible.

-Maki’s throw range is 60 pixels, and honda’s fierce 360 range is 56 pixels (strong is 57, jab is 58), so she SHOULD be able to throw him out of his roll before the 360 comes out. haven’t tested this quite yet either. and maki has some crazy mixup options after her punch throw, just check the maki thread.

-Even if maki’s added throw range doesn’t catch the RC 360 or if you don’t like the timing of throwing honda out of his RC 360, she can just scrap it and do a level 1 720. this is a VERY defensive super, and takes all the guessing out of throwing OR going low with honda’s fierce or rh. if honda jumps straight up to bait the 720, maki recovers quick enough to do a low fierce or standing rh as AA (so it’s basically free damage). to get a reversal level 1 720, just spin the stick like an idiot, and double tap jab (or triple tap all the punches if you only have a level 1).

THIS IS IF MAKI GETS KNOCKED DOWN IN THE FIRST PLACE. which really shouldn’t happen. and C-maki should always have a level 1 considering how quickly C-maki builds meter. honda dashed forward and did a 720 SUPER? maki’s whiff throw animation makes her unthrowable for 24 frames. as long as maki gets reversal timing on the level 1 720, then honda’s 720 SHOULD whiff even if honda’s super flash occurs after maki’s.

-70 stun points is nice so she won’t get dizzied very easily.

-Most characters are usually at a disadvantage when honda corner them, but maki is at a huge advantage. all her off the wall tricks are nice, or just spring off the wall and run away some more.

-Honda does RC hands to poke with? just jump up and down and press roundhouse because of it’s good hitting angle. or air block if they do a headbutt.

-Once maki gets her level 3, a level 3 720 OR standing mk/fp into level 3 kick super gets some serious damage for maki to run away the rest of the round. linking into a level 2/3 punch super from a mp also works if honda messes up his timing on a RC move on wakeup.

CONCLUSION?

all in all, maki has the tools to nullify a bunch of honda’s RC 360 50/50 bullshit and RC cheese. always have a level 1 for a reversal 720, and run away and use airblock. get a throw, and capitalize off the mixup. i’d go as far as to call it a counter match, but you have to have a solid knowledge of maki for it to work. and lots and lots of PATIENCE.

peace

PS- as i said, i don’t have my DC on me to test some of this stuff, but it sounds right from what i know about the properties of reversals and throw ranges. if buktooth or somebody who has a better knowledge of the properties of frame data on reversal timing or whatever else, please post up if i’m incorrect on any of this stuff.

23

i think it’s pretty much a poking war with your s.fwd vs her s.rh.

24

jump straight up and hk coming down.

25

RC run->stop =]
Just a thought…
If you’re in K the answer is obviously JD. Punishing after that can be anything into Genko punch. Jumping straight up works for everyone and it’s probably the easiest way to punish.

26

what are some of the best ways to attack or move in with maki?

27

what can i do about joe’s sliding sweep? after block and to stuff.

28

after block from the right distance the slide is is safe as you probably know. It resets the situation pretty much, but joe can do things like ‘ume’-dp or RC fast hands which leaves him at an advantage. So what you do after really depends on what THEY do after, doesn’t it? And to stuff the slide… hmm, never really thought about it, it’s a good slide. Have you tried to see how s.mk measures up against it? I think timing on that would be hard even IF it stuffed it. If you can roll, then go for it if you expect the slide. The slide has a large hitbox is safe, but has a bit of lag on the end. Maki’s roll is mid-tier and should be good enough to punish. If you’re playing K, the answer is abvious again imo, JD. That is such a broken thing :clap: I like to put in a JD after every s.mk and I think that would randomly work here too. You’d have to be very luck to get meter with that last JD though :sad:

29

okay

i find this to be the most irritating matchup for K-maki

freaking A-bison.

there’s no way i can land the kick super with counterhit setups cuz he’ll try to RC psychocrusher pretty much through shit

lots of luck trying to get the 720

s.fwd, great poke, what use is it again A-bison who just runs away,build bar and random RC pc at you when try to get in?

30

Walk up a little bit, then just block/jd. He shouldn’t be hitting you with EVERY random RC if you manage to switch things up. Sounds like you’re just not being patient enough. You should be able to do SOME sort of damage to him. His jump is slow/high enough so he shouldn’t really be able to jumpin without meter. If he’s just turtling with meter, walk up and try to work on his guard with random fierces and forwards. A blocked or jd’ed torpedo isn’t safe, so you shouldn’t be dying to just that.

31

well, walk up, block/jd is the general way to fight bison. smacking him with s.fierce is okay, but in most cases, this alone will not win me the match, yet it’s what i’m forced to do for 70% of the game.

instead of jumping they often just short scissor kick me. i’m having a hard time to punish this, since all maki’s long range normals are 6 frame long and can’t cancel into special

when i’m raged, i pretty much have to resort to the same tactic or else i eat hella rc psychocrushers.(due to the limiting option of how she can land her supers). i can hope he does scissor kick when i’m raged and i Jd it and punish, but that’s very rare in my case.

what other matchups do you guys hate?
i sitll hate yamazaki vs maki however maki vs sagat isn’t as bad as it used to be for me.

well that’s basically why i hate the matchup.

32

if you’re hitting him with a random fierce here and there, i really doubt he’s gonna repeat the move over and over. once he begins to try something else, that’s when you should take advantage of his lowered defense. you’re right, this ALONE does not win the match, but it helps.

i don’t think short scissors are safe unless it’s that 1-hit tip of the foot type of hit. just punish with whatever you can… it’s not necessary to be able to land a 3000 damage bnb. i can guarantee that once he starts taking hits, he’ll stop spamming the move (same idea with the random rc pc’s).

RC psychocrushers are not fool proof. how exactly are you having so many problems with them? this sounds less like maki’s problem and more of a problem with your own playstyle. just be more patient. it’s inevitable that you’ll eat SOME random pc’s, but they shouldn’t be beating you this bad.

33

short scissor kick is -7, trying to punish the two hit version is like trying to do a 1 frame link. if he has full bar, i’m hella screweed cuz i can’t even try to punish since i can eat the stupid cc activate. about the Rc psycho crushers BEATing me. it’s beaitng me cuz he gets a couple/few random ones in, but that allows him to turtle more/bulid bar. what i fear most is when he’s at full bar. i can’t do anything against him. he can pretty much just wait for me all day, the best i can hope for is a few s.fwd, but he’ll probably block that and then rc psycho crusher if i use it anymore.

it might be my playstyle. really really basic run down of what happens in most of my bison encounters
1)when i’m raged, i never get a chance to land the super cuz i eat rc psycho crusher at the slightest twitch on my part.
2)i eat a couple rc psychocrushers for my impatience. and i start baiting it but i only get to s.fierce him like 2-3 times before he wises up and starts to turtle differently
3)when he has bar, he starts to spam scissor kicks more often. giving me a hard time. from here i either get gaurdcrushed into activate, eat the scrubby setup, or i get really lucky and he activates when i’m still blocking in which i take the chip instead of doing KKK cuz i really dont’ want him with ANY bar
4)jump ins = jd or get hit by rc crusher i don’t bother with that too much

that’s about it. as you can see, i dont’ get much of a chance to do anything. maybe i just have to play really tricky and start using the wall grabs more to mix up his timing and whatnot. but i hate the matchup cuz when your raged, it gets painful to have to watch your bar run out slowly.

34

I think you’re giving the bison player too much credit, and killing yourself before the match even begins. Basically you’re saying he can beat ANYTHING that you do in the matchup, and that he’ll be successfully landing random RC psycho crushers the entire match way more than you’ll be blocking them.

If random RC psycho crushers are giving you that much problems, learn to bait them. You’re giving WAY too much credit for a strat that is essentially random at its core. If he really is landing them non-stop, then the problem is that you’re just being too predictable in your offense.

Watch for his pattern when he’s doing the psycho crushers. When does he seem to do it?

  1. When you walk up?
  2. When you throw out a move?
  3. When you jump in?
  4. When you’re just sitting there?

There are counter strategies to EACH of these situations. It sounds like you’re just not thinking hard enough to beat a decent turtle.

  1. Inch forward then block.
  2. Whiff fast moves at a decent range then block.
  3. Throw out an early attack that’s hard to react against, or just JD.
  4. JUST SIT THERE AND BLOCK. Random is… Random. I guarantee you can just sit there the ENTIRE ROUND, and he’ll eventually throw our an RC psycho crusher hoping you’re impatient enough to walk into it.

Turtles are much harder to deal with if they are up on health, so try to build up a lead and KEEP IT. If you’re up on life, chances are they’ll walk in and try to start an offensive.

I think your main problem here is that you don’t know how to fight a decent turtle without a character that has crazy good abusable normals (Sagat’s fierce, Cammy’s roundhouse, etc…).

35

i just think it’s tough to beat bison. like seriously you gotta wear him down, (time wise especially), you won’t be landing huge damage on him at all. 720setups will fail badly to bison as he will rc psycho crusher any setups easily(imo). and good luck landing that kick super. yeah you’re right, it’s not impossible. but i think it’s an ugly match cuz your forced to take a huge ass long route to take him down.

36

How would say Cammy, Blanka, or Sagat be doing any better against this wonder Bison than Maki?

37

blanka and sagat can punish block crusher with super(not sure about cammy) so it prevents bison from using rc crusher as much. without bar, it’s pretty much the same game as maki though

cammy and sagat can do c.shorts into super to it prevents bison from jumping (or catching him if he tries to do rc d/u+p and fucks up).

i dont’ really use blanka/cammy vs bison much though.

it’s not much, but everyone is already limited against the generic bison tactic. but at least sagat/blanka can super him for huge daamge if they’re raged and he tries to rc crusher, maki can’t do much except a raged fierce if she gets lucky and doesn’t get hit by the rc crusher. :confused:

what do you do when you play bison with maki? wait until he rc crusher/punish, and do random s.fwd pokes?

i mean i get your point in bringing up the top three, but the match is still ugly vs maki since she’s REALLY REALLy limited on landing her super.

38

Your problem in the beginning sounded like you were getting HIT by too many RC crushers, not because they were chipping you to death.

At any rate, a raged Sagat should be discouraging a decent Bison player to throw out less random crushers to begin with; thereby decreasing the possibility of Sagat being able to punish a blocked crusher.

Blanka does NOT have it nearly as good as Sagat because he needs to be charged in order to punish a blocked crusher. I would say decent Bison players have an even LESS chance of throwing out a random crusher vs a charged AND raged Blanka than they do vs just a raged Sagat.

Does Sagat/Blanka have damage potential in these situations than Maki? Yes.
Will these situations come up all the time for Sagat/Blanka to make a huge difference? Probably not.

Regardless, your problem seemed to come from eating too many random RC crushers. In that case, Blanka/Sagat can’t do anything more than Maki (which is to simply eat the move and take damage).

CBS has c.short. Maki has c.short as well. c.short, c.jab, s.short xx super. It’s not easy, but it works right? Doesn’t c.strong hit low as well? Why aren’t you using that? I remember writing a longass post on the merits of Maki’s c.strong in conjunction with meter, but I have a feeling practically no one here took it seriously (mostly cuz of random low-level bashing of c.mp due to it’s low range).

Also, a free Maki raged fierce after a blocked crusher is… well… a FREE Maki RAGED FIERCE. That’s a small, but very decent amount of FREE damage. You seriously don’t think it will bother the Bison player to eat two-three of these after missed random crushers?

If I’m playing vs a Bison who’s just spamming RC crushers, I’ll just play patient and get free fierces off of blocked crushers. Try to slowly advance in order to get grabs/guardstrings/mixups when they get too nervous to throw out more crushers (in fear that they’ll be blocked). It depends on what else they’re doing, but JUST spamming RC crushers isn’t that effective.

Her kick super is extremely damaging, but not being able to land it does not mean you will automatically lose the match.

39

interesting, i didn’t know c.short linked into c.jab

it’s a 1 frame link though, but i never thought it’d link. i’ll probably test some more on this, but still bison is an ugly matchup. the match still favors bison hugely. it’s not like it’s not doable, but it’s hella work for maki, especially if the bison player is competent.

40

It’s not practical, but it works… If you don’t like c.short, then use c.strong.

Well Bison IS top tier… Maki isn’t. That’s one of the pitfalls for choosing a character that isn’t better than everyone else. You just have to learn to play the matchup to your best ability and think of ways around problems.