Make it Bloody Rain: The Vega Combo/Tech Thread

Street Fighter V Character Discussion
141

@Nekorin It could be the hitbox, @nappydude, I’m pretty sure if they just press nothing they still get grabbed. I played against this guy named toolassisted who is number 123 or something on the leaderboards. He is really good, basically a bot, and I used it on him a couple times. The key to it is really all in your timing.

I found out that yes, throws beat normals on a trade, but this setup seems to make it extremely simple to force the trade situation.

edit**I found out that the reason my “setup” works is because you are grabing their extended hurtbox, so if they do nothing, you will whiff, unless you step forward a little bit. So it can be a bit of a mixup. You have to worry about if they don’t press anything, but if they don’t, that means that you have established respect, which is great.

@doozer667 st.lk is a great anti air for dhalsims that teleport behind you.

142

So I was messing around with a frame trap, and what I found out is this. In some situations, our frame traps put us at a distance which is too far to confirm into a full combo, because of the initial guard pushback, however, if you are quick and clean enough, you can slightly move forward before the next normal, in order to continue the combo making for some really godlike counterhit punishes. In the video I demonstrate all of this. I did the combo in the corner, but it is the same concept anywhere on screen. Notice how you can’t even see me move forward when I do connect the combo. Thats how slight it is. Move forward too much, and they will be able to block.

The window for error is literally like 1 frame. It is pretty hard to do this, but might be worth practicing because in a lot of cases, even if you don’t convert, you still put them in block stun, and if they pressed a button, your normal should still win because of the frame advantage.

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@greatlakes_pvp while what you’ve shown is true - realistically, it’s not worth practising 1 frame movements. I doubt it’s even possible consitently, considering all the things we have to process as it happens.

St.LP doesn’t hit crouching and seems to have quite a bit of pushback. I think cr.LP would create less pushback on block and you’d be able to convert from the counter hit.

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@af0 Good tip. In some situations tho, I do choose to st.lp rather than cr.lp simply because it is a 3 frame move vs a 4 frame move, so I choose the quicker one, but you’re right if they crouch. you might get blown up, BUT you can force people into a true blockstring with a jump in attack followed by st.lp, so they are forced to stand (I think) otherwise they’d get hit by the jump in. **Ok I just tested,and the cpu can crouch between the jump in and the jab, but a human person might not be so lucky. It’s way too quick.

I’ve been in the lab with it, and while the link is kind of “hard”, I have been getting it pretty consistently, and like I said, worst case scenario is that they block, in which case the st.hk cannot be punished even if you did the full TC. It’s sort of like a muscle memory thing. Definitely possible, but online could be a different story lol.

I am gonna mess around with cr.lp and see if the pushback is different, but the other thing is, cr.lp isn’t +3 on block, so that frametrap won’t work as well, if at all. Thats the other reason i’m using st.lp

@Tomo009 I found out you can meaty the 6mk overhead. Like truly meaty and combo after it.

145

Anyone try messing around with jump cancels? It might help a lot for meaty throw setups. l.CT, l.ASE, or GID might work. You basically finish these moves with UP as the last input, so for example you can do an easy Tiger Knee motion for CT. Down back, down forward, up forward and you get CT. Reverse for ASE and GID.

Going to hit the lab in a bit to see how well it works.

146

I know how to do it but I started contemplating whether or not it is worth it to mess around with jump cancels and risk getting hit with a straight up meaty normal. That was the argument in the jump cancel thread. Seems like meaty throw is not really an optimal punish/setup. Now using it for command throw setups might be good, but still, there is the risk of, what if they just go for a meaty? You are gonna get trashed every time.

So basically, I think it’s good to know how to do, but not something to be using frequently. You are better off just jumping out of a command throw setup because it’s faster; and if you call it wrong, they could just block (unless you used GID). I would use this(occasionally) if I identify a specific setup that I know someone is going for and I want to punish it.

On the other hand, jump canceling on offense is a nice option for instance, if you know someone is gonna try to throw break or something. You could jump cancel the command grab and shit on their normal throw.

147

I tried some jump cancels and they didn’t seem any safer than waking up normal. I’m pretty sure I was doing the inputs right, too. Perhaps I’ll double check it and test some more in the lab.

BTW, in the mirror match, point blank s.HP xx h.ASE hits Vega. A little easier to confirm into BR, but still have to dedicate to it like the other versions of ASE.

148

Cool set-ups thanks. I think I’d rather go for V-Skilll after a successful TC to guarantee damage and V-gauge build, but this looks useful in corner situations.

149

@whitecrowz It all depends on what you’re trying to do. It is a very good reset tool after stun, and also, once you have established respect, you can do the crossup and go for a raw command grab, because they will be blocking expecting the meaty. Lots of options. I at least like to use it on them once or twice just to put that fear into them.

I don’t think the corner makes a difference because if you cross them up, then YOU are in the corner. I would use this tech anywhere cause if you only do it in the corner, they might get a read on you. They still can’t really do anything outside of guessing 50/50 whether you are gonna grab or meaty. They have to block or jump, if they guess wrong, they get hit. The other choice they have is to do no recovery, but that opens up even more dangerous setups.

150

edited for clarity

Hey guys, sorry if this has already been discussed:

I’ve been messing around with slide (crouch roundhouse) to close gaps and maintain pressure. I’ve found that whiff slide into throw after clawless s.MP, s.HK target combo is meaty; wake-up throws will tech and it beats 3f jabs and shorts. You can’t simply step back, unfortunately, as a throw will catch you. You can back dash out, but I haven’t been able to convert this into anything. You can also neutral jump or jump forward. Alternatively, you can hit a few different buttons, such as c.MP and s.LK, and score a counter hit if they press anything.

Also, in claw stance, the same concept works after strong ASE. Characters with a 3f reversal tend to poke out of it, but it’s very consistent against individuals mashing 4f buttons.

I’ve been playing with EX crimson as well. A follow-up whiff slide/throw CAN be meaty but the timing is really tight. I need to play more, there may be a way to make it less of a gamble …

As per usual, this was all discovered setting the training dummy to wake-up with a throw and/or a 3f or 4f reversal.

Anywho. My first post on SRK! Have mercy. Maybe this is crap tech and it won’t lead to anything, but I thought I’d mention it. Maybe the true lab monsters can take it to the next level.

Stay beautiful, Vegas. Cheers!

EDIT: Wow, I did a terrible job explaining myself. Hopefully less confusing now. :expressionless:

151

@method the cr.hk slide is active for like 9 frames, so it is pretty easy to make it meaty in almost any situation. If you mean meaty as in it hits on the last active frame and becomes -5 rather than -13, that is pretty interesting, but it is still -5 which isn’t safe. Sometimes, if I think someone is sleeping I will do stuff like that, and if they were doing anything except crouch blocking hey will get hit, but the trickiest thing I have come up with is a target combo - > CT crossup -> instant slide. Once again, if they weren’t crouch blocking (and ready for the crossup) they will get hit. I have a whole setup for it which leads to a crossup/fakecross j.lk after that, but if you didn’t hit the sweep, thats not a good situation lol.

152

@greatlakes_pvp Thanks for the feedback! But I’m actually wiffing the slide to close the gap and following up with a meaty throw. Sorry for not being more clear! The slide is quite … dangerous to toss out, obvious from it’s terribad frames … so I’ve been looking for other uses. Whiffing the slide after the target combo in clawless leads to meaty throws. Same with strong ASE in claw stance versus 4f and (with a bit of practice) maybe even EX crimson, which I tend to use a lot. Or HK CT (which I rarely use).

s.MP, s.HK --> knockdown --> empty slide, meaty throw (or neutral jump, or forward jump, or back dash, or c.MP, or s.LK)

I actually managed to get two consecutive crimsons doing this. EX CT, empty slide, c.MP, MK CT, etc. As you say, my opponent was likely asleep, but still cool. :slight_smile:

EDIT: Messed that up, rushed post. The first CT needs to be EX or HK for the slide whiff to work, you obviously need the knockdown. Fixed.

153

@Meth0d Ahh ok, that makes much more sense. Make sure you have the cpu set to punish accordingly so we can be for sure this works. I will go to the lab and try it out as well. That would be a really nice setup.

*edit was this being used on quickrise, back recovery, or no recovery btw?

154

@greatlakes_pvp Quickrise, I believe. Second option. I had Cammy set to wake-up with both her c.LP and throw. I switched to Ken and tested with his 4f reversals and more scenarios opened up. I could even manage a c.HP after the slide whiff.

155

The corner is where your opponent is LEAST likely to realize they’ve been crossed up. It’s the most difficult position to correctly defend against, both on ground and in air. So, high risk, high reward. The other advantage is that you can also fuck up their wakeup motion and avoid getting hit with a frame-1 invincible reversal or their v-reversal.

Also, as far as Combos go, I was watching a Japanese Vega player named Pontia and he did an interesting CC:

Barehanded:
CC HK, HK, c.LP xx EX FBA

This actually did less damage than the optimal barehand combo (CC HK, c.MK, MP-HK target combo xx EX FBA) but I noticed the stun was a little more. Which had me experiment a little.

On average, if you perform this with claw, it’s ONLY worth the extra stun if you’re gonna burn two meter. Otherwise just go for the normal combo (352/515). A one-meter combo loses 14 damage and gains 5 stun. (338/520)

Claw:
CC HK, HK, LK, c.LP/LP (either one) xx EX FBA Slash, EX ASE. (378/600)

On the other hand, if you are bare-handed, your optimum damage combo (361/506) is 2 damage more and 35(!) stun less than this combo:

Barehand:
CC HK, HK, LP, c.MP xx EX FBA, Izuna (359/541)

If you want a high-damage and high-stun combo using both VT and CA, the HK HK version makes the EXACT same trade of 2 damage for 35 stun:

CC HK, HK, LP, c.MP xx VT, CA (512/441)

Compared to the normal combo:

CC HK, c.MK, MP-HK xx VT, CA (514/406)

EDIT: Uploaded a video since I figured out how to use Shadowplay with this new video card:

https://youtu.be/e71LSvI2uXU

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@“Arlieth Tralare” Verrrry interesting. Thanks for that info. I had seen that double HK combo before, and I was wondering what was the real point of it.

157

Of course, I would use this maybe once per set, most of the time I’d rather go for guaranteed damage/V-gauge by finishing the combo with V-Skill, or even EX FBA depending on the situation. As for why I’d use this in the corner, it’s trickier for the opponent to block there.

158

Not sure if this is new, but I thought it was cool! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5lgH9z9gSE

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You can do it against the fatter part of the cast but it’s not a cross up (if it was the “cross up” text would pop-up)

I was also really excited but yea:

(heja sverige förresten)

160

@greatlakes_pvp Did you find any use for the whiff slide? I just wish I could figure out how to cram a CC in there …

I messed around with it a bit more this morning:

Against Cammy set to quickrise with her 3f c.LP or a grab, the target combo into whiff slide/throw is 100% consistent so long as I don’t drop the timing. You can slide in and meaty throw, s.LK counter, c.MP counter, neutral jump, jump forward. Quite a few options.

MP ASE into wiff slide/throw doesn’t work against 3f reversals, but it’s very consistent against the cast who only have 4f or better. I think your only option here for counter hit is s.LK, but that’s never a bad thing. EDIT: It also appears that the s.LK will counter hit someone trying to mash a 3f jab or a throw, however. At worse you trade if you’re too slow with the standing short.

As for EX CT into whiff slide/meaty throw, I still struggle with consistency. It’s hit-and-miss versus 3f. I suspect the timing is just wrong and it doesn’t work unless you get lucky. Against someone with 4f, repeated success is possible but I suspect it’s too tight to be practical.