266

That’s what I use, but I meant using them in a combo.

267

the cross up thing involves you training your opponent to calm the fuck down XD

268

Yo can anyone explain to me whats happening in the following scenario?
Mags does a meaty on incoming, other player xfactors, but gets thrown immediately.
I dont really get how you can buffer an OS throw without getting the H out for the combo. Would such an OS work with meaty l, f+h xx mb on incoming?

269

The fact that you still haven’t done the :h: is EXACTLY what makes this possible! Here’s what makes it possible:

You can chain weaker buttons to stronger buttons.
Throws happen when your opponent is in a throwable state and you begin an “H” strength command, while holding a direction.

When your opponent blocks an L, or an M, and x-factors, he is effectively at -1, because of the XFactor activation taking up 0+1 (or is it 1+0? something to that effect) frames.
What this means is that you are actually at a frame advantage against a now out of blockstun, throwable opponent, so by chainin your previous atack into a direction+H, you get a just frame punish untechable (?) throw.

270

Allright, thanks for the explanation!

271

Hey guys with Mag-Doom(Hidden Missiles)-Vergil(Rapid Slash) lets say you kill your opponents first character in the corner so now your in the corner what would be some high level corner incoming mixups with Magneto or should I use my assist and Mag?

272

you could do a number of different things like you can (on incoming); call missiles air :l: addf dash under neutral jump to fake grab (air dash down) into a grab or call missiles, super jump addf [as missiles are hitting] air :h: into fly immediate unfly then land and do whatever afterwards. some OS are if they can and do double jump, or some form of up back then you can grab them before missiles even hit and then proceed to TOD or when they do upback and missiles hit them, then do hyper grav :h: and go from there.

273

I have a theory reset. Just let me know what you all think about how just playing with timing and HSD leads to resets mid combo.

PS Holding Forward is free for the reset I’m talking about. It yields the same result.

274

I had some ideas for some midscreen resets but they seemed a little too silly for competitive play imo. i’m starting to make more use of :m: and :l: as buttons leading into the reset more then :h: as for beginning of combos.

EDIT: another thing is that some of the other resets i had in mind are just variations of ones ika, aerial and kanta posted months ago but with conversions all over the screen >///< some super jump resets are retarded

275

I find the button I use to reset varies by the character I’m trying to reset. Usually on characters with good air mobility, I prefer to let the :h: knock them down so I can use repulsion and guarantee that they have to eat 2-3 high/low mixups while also having the added effect of severely limiting their escape options, since air dashing away tends to get them out of troublesome situations as long as they do it early enough. I’m all for resetting in the air as long as they don’t have any horrifying sights in store for me; I’m speaking in terms of air to ground normals like Sentinel’s frying pan and Hulk’s booty clapper. In the same vein, there are characters you should NEVER reset in the air like Dr. Derp. Mashing :s: will beat any of your reset options except block and he kills off air throws.

276

i actually find that resetting doom gets you a higher chance of success -BECAUSE- of S mashing.

Reset I use is TAC kappa

277

I’ve got an incoming setup I’ve whittled down to some pretty basic steps. I still have to play it in matches to see if it really works but here’s the idea.

Corner only:
Kill/Snap, normal Jump to about max height, fly, meaty j.H, pause , addf S.
On no push the S overheads, unjumpable. Call assist and run mixups.
On early push, plenty of time to dash in and attempt a throw break.
Late push I’m not sure about (training mode), but they’ll be able to double push the H S so getting in might be tricky. Likely no throw, but a tridash could probably overhead them on the ground, or just call assist and lock em down.

The idea is to throw them on push, and even if they tech they’ll fall into a covered grounded block.
This uses the fact that air throw techs are invulnerable until the characters hits the ground unless they cancel their invulnerability by pushing buttons.

I’ve tried to use the air tech to force setups. The H into S is one I’ve found that combos on hit, meaties them to the ground on block, and sets up throw tech’s on pushblock.

Letting them hit the ground looks risky,but invincible meter reversal attacks SHOULD let you whiff the S into a block, with game freeze to let you see it. Timed lariats/DP’s are another beast entirely.

Anyone see something I’m overlooking that is obvious? I’m suspect on the late push, and I’ve seen Mags get pushed fullscreen by exact dash/push timing.

What I’m trying to make is a block string that is pretty much safe to reversal when they land and push’s lead to throw attempts, and converts to combo on hit. Use of an assist is not necesarily wanted, unless they push block. If some setup with these qualities exists and is better than the above let me know. Thanks.

278

my dumb ass accidentally leftr my copy of marvel at a friends but i have some setups in mind regarding resets that use jam session, missiles, and drones if they haven’t already been shown or whatever.

stuff:
ad: air dash
ub:up back
uf:up forward
df:down forward
db:down back
nj:neutral jump
:a1: / :a2: : Any strong lockdown assist you have at your disposal.

setups and other shit;

all of these don’t require much to get the setup, just that you get to the corner or at least near it;
once in or near the corner after you’ve maxed out your hit stun, instead of the normal super jump tac bait ( sj :l: > :s: addf…) you can (obviously) stay at normal jump height just in case the opponent has godlike buttons and you want to rush the setup.

here’s the buttons (you’ll find it kind of similar to some other shit you’ve seen);

[quote=normal jump reset#1]

**after hyper grav ender or other combos > j :l: addf :a1: + :h: :s: **

essentially the same stuff as the fchamp setup but gives you a safer option to lock them down, get a grab and also a happy birthday opportunity if you notice you opponent mashing. i don’t know yet if the setup is guaranteed but once i get my copy back i’ll get to recording the other sequences and shit

279

Anyone have any tips on the solo throw resets? I’ve seen Neo do them but I don’t quite understand the mechanics. He has one that’s a flight cancel and one that’s a cross up.

280

Well the corner one relies on the fact that you have a threatening TAC option, usually an infinite. Because they’re afraid of the TAC they’ll be mashing S with a direction,
so if you reset them with hypergrav, sj.h, sj.s, h, s, sj.l aduf you can throw them out of the beginning of their j.s . Hope this helps

281

Any new tricky incoming mixups other than this one. Been out of it for a few months, hoping there’s some new stuff or something I missed…

282

I like your name and I like your team… >_>

283

So I know there are some people here using Mags/Jam Session (at least @forte95‌ and @Merkyl999x‌ ) . I love the mixups off of that assist because of the cool throw property and Frank gets some pretty retarded stuff… But my Mags is still kind of lackluster in that department. Anyone have some cool ways to use JS they’d be willing to share?

Here’s me freestyling random stuff in the lab. Hoping to get more ideas to mess with!

Also really like some of those setups into throw… Especially the empty tridash crossup, neutral jump empty ADD (so they pass under you) into throw. If they pushblock JS to avoid sliding you’re close enough to throw although it’s really hard for me to test solo whether that’s a true guard break.

EDIT: At the same time I also realize it’s hard to beat just doing a bunch of high/lows with no side switching stuff :stuck_out_tongue:

284

Yeah, some cool looking setups, but the reality is that you should just aim to run 3 hi/lows on pretty much every blocked JS. People aren’t going to block that reliably and Mags can force that situation a lot.

The main issue I run into trying to run any kind of left/right shenanigans is pushblock gives people free outs all over the place.

The flip side of that, though. If you can get people afraid of left/right mixups so that they’re constantly trying to late pushblock? Free throws all day.

285

Those are already good setups.

I do have some things that might help you.

IOH. If you sj addf S or something like that, when Jam makes them block, that’s one entire lockdown worth of fuzzy guard. IOH is really cheap cause it’s even harder to react to than tridashes (which are already good enough for most mixups) plus the dash cancels you can get extend pressure in kinda-braindead ways.

I know there’s a thread around here that lists down which IOH works with what chars. I’ll try to find it and edit the link in later.

Rule of thumb though is that jM is your best bet. The drawback is it has a bit less range than IOH jL so you have to be right next to the blocking opponent but that’s not hard to set up with Jam. If you’re up against a matchup where IOH jL works, then use that because it’s faster.

What’s cheap about IOH aside from the speed is that you have a dash left over, so you can IOH xx add immediately, setting you up for another hi/low. Mixups of this type are kinda like free-flowing mixups where you just cancel almost everything into another mixup. The IOH xx add grounds you so you can go for another cL/IOH mixup. You can also IOH xx addf, followed by your usual tridash mixup jL/whiff normal into cL/whiff normal into throw. All your high options (IOH, tridash) leave you standing in front of the opponent with no recovery so you can setup another mixup, plus you don’t have to worry about hitconfirming because Jam will catch the confirm for you.

Your low options can’t be canceled as quickly. I only do low with single hit cL; I’ll just wait to recover from the cL to free-flow into the next mixup rather than go into a full ground series because
-it gives me more mixups during Jam
-ground series after cL is pretty easy to pushblock because the opponent doesn’t have to worry about mistiming
-Jam catches the confirm for you so you don’t need a ground series to confirm anymore

IOH xx adf plink Blast is also good. It chases with a plink Blast ifever your IOH gets pushblocked. It’s an autocorrect crossup if they don’t pushblock, so it easily sets up a left/right mindfuck because you hit the IOH from one side but the Blast comes from the other side; that disorientation leaves them more open to another crossup empty tridash low, so you basically hit left/right/left, or fake crossup empty tridash low to hit left/right/right. It’s all autoblockable if you don’t go low, but I like how it sets up the mindfuck because they WILL be ready for tridash crossups but they don’t always expect an autocorrect crossup plink Blast.

It gets even more stupid if you do it by the end of Jam. the adf Plink Blast suddenly comes from the front now, but the mindfuck will only work if you’ve done the autocorrect crossup at least once. Or when they block Jam you can tridash over to the other side then IOH xx adb Blast just as they get pushed by Jam, it’s another same side setup for when you’ve done the crossup version once. It’s also pretty stupid cause even after Jam wears off, they block a Blast so that’s at least one more mixup before you free-flow into your next assist.

Fly cancel. If you go into ground series and fly cancel, I find that it’s better to do fly/unfly instead of fly xx S. The fly xx S is reactable if your opponent is used to it, because it’s very telegraphed (it’s your only mixup option off a full blocked ground series). If you fly/unfly you get to mix it up with unfly overheads/cL again, plus when you land you can set up an IOH or tridash mixup before Jam ends. Fly/unfly also means you can dash up throw after Jam ends because they won’t be in air S blockstun.

EDIT: Oh haha the thread I was talking about that has the list of which IOH against which chars is actually this thread, just go to the first page