Madcatz PCB = Lag?!

[PaperTigre]

You plop in your quarter, sneer at the other guy, yell at him for hella crowding the controls, choose your character, get owned up, leave, and talk about how that sucker needs to learn how to play.

I never had this problem, I sat at the Neo Geo cabinet in my arcade… alone

[scabby796]

Why does it seem odd to me that with the consistent and well known problems with the TE/SE 360 pcb (triggers and disconnections), that it would take this imperceptible amount of lag for people to finally admit or realize that the main board on the 360 TE/SE sticks is a piece of shit?
MarkMan, nothing but love; everything you touched on the TE was great, but that main board is exactly the kind crap quality that gave MadCatz a bad reputation to begin with.

This man speaks the TRUTH!! I’ve gone through 13 Madcatz PCB’s…4 Xbox-TE, 3 Xbox-SE, 4 Xbox-Fightpad, and 2 PS3-TE
I shit you not!! The only MC sticks I have now have been gutted of all Madcatz components, even the wiring.

[WhySee0210]

I would prefer a test on stock items, but in the end. It’s still a comparison of apples to oranges. Also, hooking it up to where the TE daisy chains to the RAPVX will of course make the RAPVX input come out first. I believe attenuation plays a small role in the set up, it’s like having a 20" wire for just one button.

[Toodles]

Attenuation of the connecting wires plays no part here. Please dont make me dig up the math to prove it. The capacitors that MadCatz puts between the signals and ground on the main pcb affect tau far more than the resistance in that 20" of wire ever could, even if it was some impossibly thin 40 gauge stuff.

[sunnynice]

40 gauge ? unbelievable for sure.

[eoneo]

I think that I’d have to follow suit that it all depends on the construction of the PCB itself. As long as it’s acceptable, anybody can get used to the amount of “lag”. Any player on converter set-ups knows that there is just a bit of lag that naturally happens, but they’re usually adjusted to it. You can be a great player on a TE PCB, but then get an HRAP3SA PCB, and things are off? Doesn’t make you a bad player. Just something has been changed. Much like preference of Sanwa or Seimitsu. Sure, maybe a “less laggy” PCB makes it “better,” but there’s a lot of quantifiers of better. Is it common ground? That’s a big deal. How expensive was the PCB to make? Doesn’t matter for one frame of lag if you can make it at half the cost.

Yes, there are always discrepancies from stick to stick. That’s why you don’t play on a different stick every time. You hopefully practice on one stick, bring it to tourneys, and play on it. That’s why you mod it so it’s perfect for you. That’s why you make a custom, so it is perfect for you.

Honestly, I didn’t bother to see how much lag they quoted, because nobody has ever complained about the TE being laggy. Once you adjust to a certain amount of lag, 1 frame less lag means 1 frame of lag different than what you’re used to, which is not necessarily a good thing.

The problem is that unlike, for example, a laggy monitor, the TE lag is inconsistent. If you see the linked video, sometimes they trade hits perfectly, and sometimes the TE loses cleanly (counterhit). You can’t adjust to an inconsistent lag.

[Rufus]

The problem is that unlike, for example, a laggy monitor, the TE lag is inconsistent. If you see the linked video, sometimes they trade hits perfectly, and sometimes the TE loses cleanly (counterhit). You can’t adjust to an inconsistent lag.

You could certainly see ‘inconsistent’ results from consistent lag because fighting games chop things up into 60ths of a second.

[the_judge]

Lol, I’m imagining it now. I beat a guy in a tournament, we exchange handshakes. Then he says "If I was playing on a Hori, I would have so landed that hit confirm."
My HDTV averages 35 ms of display lag. Yet I consider it good, and 100% playable. If anyone complains of such small portions of lag, they are being too damn uptight.

[MKKhanzo]

This is only for the MC sticks or the hacked pads lags as well?

[Cito48]

Lol, I’m imagining it now. I beat a guy in a tournament, we exchange handshakes. Then he says "If I was playing on a Hori, I would have so landed that hit confirm."
My HDTV averages 35 ms of display lag. Yet I consider it good, and 100% playable. If anyone complains of such small portions of lag, they are being too damn uptight.

pretty much. like you see the best players on stream just borrow anyones stick and still place in the top. people make excuses for anything lol

[Rufus]

pretty much. like you see the best players on stream just borrow anyones stick and still place in the top. people make excuses for anything lol

Not to mention that in most console tourneys, you can bring your own stick.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

Lol, I’m imagining it now. I beat a guy in a tournament, we exchange handshakes. Then he says "If I was playing on a Hori, I would have so landed that hit confirm."
My HDTV averages 35 ms of display lag. Yet I consider it good, and 100% playable. If anyone complains of such small portions of lag, they are being too damn uptight.

Wow, your weak ass scrub nature is impressive.

[T37_Rampage]

Can’t tell a difference between my HRAP3, TE, Paewang stick, or Cthulhu stick.

Considering I’ve never heard this brought up by anyone anywhere until now I have a feeling nobody else could tell either.

[Heroxoot]

Honestly I feel no difference and I have tried both. No matter how you slice it, its better than using pad and always will be. It seems like a difference of input timings is all.

[Shadowless]

You could certainly see ‘inconsistent’ results from consistent lag because fighting games chop things up into 60ths of a second.

This is very true. If it is consistent, then we should never see lag of more than one frame. (Generally, the lag should always be either X frames, or X+1 frames. Sometimes we see 0 frames of difference, so we shouldn’t see more than one) You could approximate the relative lag between the two joysticks by recording what percent of the time you get a counter hit. 50% -> 1/2 frame additional lag, etc.

[shiryu22]

The tests should be redone with some sort of control. If two TEs from the same production run are daisychained and tested in a similar manner, every single normal pressed in SSFIV should trade completely evenly, right?

[Keshtath]

The tests should be redone with some sort of control. If two TEs from the same production run are daisychained and tested in a similar manner, every single normal pressed in SSFIV should trade completely evenly, right?

If it was random, then they would counter hit each other randomly. I wonder how the PAEWANG rates in all this…

[Rufus]

The tests should be redone with some sort of control. If two TEs from the same production run are daisychained and tested in a similar manner, every single normal pressed in SSFIV should trade completely evenly, right?

I did an SE vs SE test on a 360 a while ago and both sides were inconsistent. Even so, I’m not sure the SE sticks are the cause considering I’ve seen other timing oddities on the Xbox.

[HazeandFire]

Ya a control would be all I would need to be convinced. If I had two sticks I would try this, it’s not hard to set up at all…

[ShinjiGohan]

so you assume that the guy is pressing the two buttons at the exact same time. there is no way that he could possibly mess up pressing 2 buttons with 2 different hands on 2 difference controls at the same time.

Best solution set up something like NKI’s trick throw reversal video where the button lights up and record it with a fast video camera.