They’re not really OP. I just saw all their hit boxes from the mook. They have more hurt box areas than everyone else on the roster too. There’s a lot of vital parts where Bison can tag them. I’m playing a lot of Yun now so I will combine both my experiences for more analysis.
Yang’s hurtboxes seem fairly ordinary, but it’s pretty obvious that Yun’s were adjusted on purpose. All of his hurtboxes are cut down a lot more than any other character I have seen in the hitbox vids.
Matter of opinion there, Yun probably is OP, Yang no.
Yun got command grab, that is what make him way dangerous and some of his move are pure BS.
that jenai jin thing is one of nastiest super in game…
I tend to get life lead and sit back, some time devil reverse make Yun want to get in so bad, that is time to punish.
Dive kick hit box is pretty good, can’t nail j.mp on it easy, I try it and it is harder than Rufus (which still possible if you just jump after his dive kick and mp early you hit him while he was down, walk back and can do it on reaction, prediction is really the element because first you got to make sure they in the air before you do.)
so I believe in intense trading fist, he might doing stupid sht dive kick you from ANY distance, WRONG you can nail him at certain distance if this SOB think Bison is so free.
EX PSYCHO punish Palm., but they can do fake palm so don’t get stress out, I do it in close since is very hard to punish EX PC in close.
if they spam dive kick (DIVE KICK ARE THE FUTURE YO!), sometime s.fierce whiff, so is time to dash under or teleport, EX Head stomp works in closer range, if they FA your devil before, follow up with EX skull diver/devil reverse.
cross up EX skull diver works on H.head stomp, since is so high (bounce) it acturally help to change the side little bit.
Light version Head stomp will track too but the bounce range was short so is really hard to maneuver AFTER head stomp so cross him up will be hard.
Frame trap work before, i do c.mk instead s.Fierce…
I gotz some insider information from some top players.
There is an AT that if Yun spaces the dive kick correctly… THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT OTHER THAN BLOCK. YOU CANNOT ANTI AIR IT
NO MATTER WHAT CHARACTER YOU ARE. IF YOU ARE ANTI AIRING A YUN OR YANG
UP CLOSE with any character, HE ISNT GOOD.**
**
So what this means is when playing Bison, your objective is to get a lead and not let Yun into your zone. If you get any knockdowns capitalize on them (you can safe jump Yun like this:
[media=youtube]ijqrIMskXds[/media]
but if he isn’t knockdowned you best better space your shit so you can anti air him with stand hk, or even stand mk. I walk back a lot when fighting him, and when he’s getting frustrated I’ll toss out a sk to make him even more frustrated.
I suspected this considering I have had both EX PC and EX SK stuffed by up close dive kicks before and his normals, but Bison has always had problem with up close dive kicks, 50/50 at best with his few options at that range and not happening at all with Yun, and even TKCS Cammy was never able to do that. Bait, block and punish it sure, trade sometimes, but never straight up beat it.
As for keeping Yun out of that distance, much easier said than done considering he has a free in with meter I am aware you can hit him out of ex lunge, hard to do on reaction though and it trades with most stuff, and other ways to get in without meter that have to be spaced normal lunges seem to be able to be spaced for safety.
Yun vs Bison Matchup Intel from the Yun forums
M. Bison
Ben Reed’s Input
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Anti-air versus late jump-in HP (one of Bison’s primary jump-ins): LK upkicks, surprisingly, seems much more consistent when used late (Bison starts descending and timed just as he starts his fierce) than the heavier versions. Used too late as Bison descends, MK and HK upkicks can trade with Bison j. HP in Bison’s favor. LK upkicks seem to be much more consistent if done late; it’s hard to get them to trade unless you fire them way too early.
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Crouching MP can also beat Bison’s jump-in HP. Easiest spacing is if you are basically right under Bison’s ass as he activates fierce, so being a little close to Bison helps you here. Just be careful not to get crossed up by the fierce.
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If you’re kinda close to Bison when he jumps, close HP can be a really good anti-air because it hits very high over Yun’s head. Good for walk-under or walk-up. Close MK can trade with Bison j. MK, but you get the knockdown anyway and the trade is very even, so it’s worth it. You have a lot of anti-air options in this fight, obviously, because Bison jumps so high and for so long. Lots of time to decide what you can and can’t do.
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Bison corner pressure: If you are cornered and Bison is right in your face (attempting a meaty or after a dash-up) and does (blocked) c. MP xx LK scissors or c. MK xx LK scissors on their own, he is still in range to repeat that same string once again. Both c. MP and c. MK will make contact. These are two of Bison’s primary counter-hit tools to fish for knockdowns, so be respectful when Bison has you cornered, unless he’s gotten predictable enough to DP your way out. Getting impatient in the corner is what Bison counts on to deal damage in this matchup, because the only thing Bison can get from Yun down-backing it are throws (140 damage, wheeeeee) and a few rounds of puny LK scissors chip. You can afford to be patient in this matchup, because once you’re back on offense (basically by getting a divekick hit or blocked; it is PROHIBITIVELY hard to throw or c. LK punish low-and-close divekick), you’re in control.
In case you didn’t already learn this rule with another character in vanilla or Super, once you block three LK scissors in the corner, Bison is pushed out of range and can only tag whiffed limbs. This is your opportunity to escape, as long as you’re mindful of how Bison might try to cut off your escape. Jumping is probably riskier than walking out, because while Bison can poke you on the ground, the corner is one of the few places where Bison can control anti-air spacing versus Yun.
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This should be fairly obvious, but don’t DP to get out of Bison ground pressure. Bison has a zillion ways to make it whiff because of how high the initial hitboxes spawn. c. MK in particular will duck the shit out of all versions even when done right in Yun’s face (for example after a blocked LK scissors). That said, Bison tends to have poor and/or very difficult punishes for whiffed HK upkicks because it goes over his head and screws up his charge. Auto-correct U1 (Nightmare Booster) and EX Psycho Crusher will work, but depending on the distance, it can be hard to detect when Yun changes sides to properly auto-correct, and the failure mode for U1 is typically a teleport, which obviously is a free lunch for Yun, even factoring in whiffed DP recovery. Still, a bad habit that you shouldn’t be forming. Stick to blocking if Bison is attacking from the ground.
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More on low MK divekick on the inside: We’ve all seen Marn clown Andre with this. Basically, once Yun is in that sweet spot where he can cross Bison up with lowest-height MK divekick, Bison has to literally guess his way out, because his reactive options become SEVERELY limited. Bison can do his vertical jumping HK and beat low MK divekick relatively late on reaction, but otherwise he lacks the combination of speed and geometry to stop low MK divekick in his face. Done pre-emptively, Bison close HP and stand HK can stop divekick spam, but reactively (waiting to SEE Yun leave the ground), they will lose. Done pre-emptively, EX Psycho Crusher will whiff under Yun. Bison escapes – briefly – but does not win. Done reactively, Yun lands from low MK divekick in time to block EX Crusher. At this height, it is also UNREALISTICALLY difficult for Bison to block divekick on an early enough frame that he can 3-frame punish (throw or c. LK) the landing recovery, even if he stand blocks. At that height, Bison basically HAS to block MK divekick on the first possible active frame (VERY hard to space), or Yun will not be disadvantaged enough to throw or c. LK.
Obviously, you’re not going to cross Bison up with low MK divekick unless he crouches, which to me seems like a bad idea against Yun if Bison is smart. Bison’s charge-down-up EX reversals are useless against Yun, and even with the risk of baiting, Bison doesn’t want to lose access to EX Psycho Crusher and EX Knee Press reversals – any escape from Yun pressure/mixup is a precious new lease on life.
Bearing that in mind, obviously Bison is going to try and stand block your divekicks to maximize your frame disadvantage, and then immediately go to crouch block to avoid your low options. Obviously, what you want to do here is get one step ahead of Bison’s blocking patterns, and try to condition him to block divekicks low, where you cross him up and he loses his charge (assuming you don’t outright HIT him and get a combo), and blunder into lows when he tries to stand up for your divekicks. Having conditioned him to focus on blocking, you start observing whether he’s going to try and break loose with a pre-emptive anti-air/counter-hit move like close HP/stand HK or an EX reversal/teleport, or whether he’s going to sit still so that you can throw him and make him antsy.
The only psychological variable at work here is confidence in your mixup ability so that you don’t feel afraid of Bison getting loose, and are confident in your ability to confuse the hell out of him with a seemingly unstoppable attack. It’s not hard to scare the shit out of Bison in this matchup, as long as you can consistently finish your plate when you get a combo starter and punish baited reversals as hard as you can (eat your free lunch, you don’t get many against a safe character like Bison). Don’t be afraid. Get in that Kim Jong Il-looking ass and DESTROY the once-great Bison.
>Get in that Kim Jong Il-looking ass and DESTROY the once-great Bison.
Bison is not once-great, he is always good at certain lv in most game he is in.
and he is not look like KJI, is that KJI born look like him.
Tough dictatorship is comes form turtle Bison…
Cl. HP, St. LK, Cr. MK xx PS combos on yun and yang 
And I have used Cr.HP to beat out dive kicks before, it trades alot but that’s mainly what I look for in that match up. The hit box is too good not to use that move. My only trouble is punishing whiffed upkicks for big damage. I’ve been using forward dash jab to St. LK. You think I could get a lvl 2 focus or jump mp ultra?
Ok he is completely safe on both lunges and shoulders. With the lunge even non ex he beats out a low short and shoulder just pushes Bison out of low short range. His dive kicks are even more safe. His normals all seem to have stupid levels of priority as well. Sorry Tony but this char is just too good, its no wonder a lot of people have dropped their old mains for him.
Does yun have faster wake up time like Adon in super? I can’t safe jump his upkicks.
The hit boxes for upkicks start in a much higher position, hence it hits safe jump attempts more often because the others start from ground up on the first active frame. It doesn’t hit a crouching Bison.
No, Yun has normal wakeup time, and it’s the same timing as safe-jumping Fei or Seth. You should be about to land by the time he wakes up; you shouldn’t be doing the pseudo j.hp safe jump.
EX up kicks is hard to safe-jump though.
yun wakes up 1 frame faster than normal people.
Ex upkicks is 4 frame
so its a 3 frame safe jump ur looking for
it doesnt exist. just empty jump and go low everytime and mix it up from there.
or better yet dont touch him at all and control ur space.
block a couple hits after dive kick and mash teleport or backdash is probably the best way out of pressure.
im sorry i dont have any mindblowing strats for this matchup. U just got turtle up like a bitch kinda like the viper match
Even if Yun did wake up 1 frame faster, why would it matter for safe jumps? Bison doesn’t have any brain-dead safe jump setups where the timing is automatic (that I know of)
Wakeup timings from the mook:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7S1JTWz7Q_CODcwMGU5YzgtMGY1NS00OWVjLWE2NGQtNzAzMWQwNTIwM2I1&hl=en_US&authkey=CID8uYYL
Yun has normal wakeup timing
Here is a questions that has been rolling around my head, can he lunge punch punish those on reaction? Guessing yes. Even worse is does he have an OS for lunge punch.
AFAIK Yun doesn’t have too many good option selects.
Guess I’ll keep at it then. I knew upkicks were slower than dps so I thought it might be safe jumpable, but…
M16 - any chance I can get the link to the rest of the mook translated document? Not sure if it exists. What you linked to was helpful.
im having alot of success with cs lk when his up close to interrupt him from starting links etc.
What are you looking for specifically? I can’t exactly translate the entire mook >.>
