Anyone else still finds themselves trying to perform psycho crusher in SFV? I have been apart of the beta since day 1 and on occasion i still expect it to come out :bawling:

The point is that the problem with the tele-dash is that it teleports. See #2 in my post.

The problem with the teleport ISNT that it teleports its the metrics of the teleport which are easily correctable.

see:: exposed for not knowing who Arakune and Slayer are.

Teledash is cool. Teledash is also shit because of how easy it is to react to.

Part of a fix would be to make it and his backdash look the exact same a la Slayer and probably either make it much faster or have more invincibility.

I know who Slayer is, I don’t know who Arakune is. The reason Slayer’s dash works in GGXX #R is that it is as fast as other GGXX character dashes…which is to say Johnny. Everyone else has a run. Furthermore, I don’t remember Johnny’s dash being cancelable in the end frames, unlike SFV. Obviously, IAD in GGXX #R cannot be canceled into ground throws. Whatever the case, they do not function the same as in SFV. I don’t think your comparison is apples to apples. Furthermore, IIRC GGXX #R Slayer had multiple moves that make him disappear, which didn’t make his teleport a tell, unlike dictator in SFV. Again, I don’t think your comparison is apples to apples.

It may very well be that Arakune does not suffer from these distinctions and that Arakune’s dash vs the other cast is similar to SFV beta 2 dictator’s dash vs SFV beta 2 cast, I do not know. However, the fact is you cannot transplant what works in other games into this one without taking into account differences.

Back to my initial point: the fact that dictator disappears outside of v-trigger for his forward dash, and no other move, and his dash is twice as long as the minimum number of frames required for reaction, means that as soon as you disappear the opponent can just hit jab. Mentioning that a disappearing dash works in other games, without accounting for the difference in pace, footsie options, and other design considerations, is too shallow of a comparison to make imo. Provide more specifics about how what function you see dictator’s tele-dash fulfilling in this game, other than the disappearing part: Is it a footsie tool? Is it a surprise tool? Is it a gap closer after half screen or full screen knockdowns? Does it set up throw/counter hit mixup? Currently, the answer to all of these questions is “no”, it’s a waste of code, and you may as well scissor kick to close distance because of how short charge times are, or slide because it goes further.

I don’t know about you guys but I want more teleports.

His quickrise and his backdash should get psycho warped, but they should be good outside of V-trigger and better within V-trigger. If they are gonna gimp his teleport shenanigans just so they can justify making them good in V-trigger then no thanks.

I also strongly agree that they should visually all be very similar or identical, to further confuse opponents.

The distance the dash goes will never, ever, be a problem for a character such as SFV’s Bison. The farther it goes, seeing as how it doesn’t go through the opponent’s hitbox, will always be strictly better.

Now, if you want to talk about how long it takes for him to disappear, and then reappear, now that’s a totally different argument, which has to do with the animation’s speed, and nothing at all to do with the distance the port travels.

Your comparison is also bad, because hayate is much, much, more unsafe than SK’s ever will be, so Bison’s strictly better off in that department. Bison’s jump ins are also quite good, maybe not as good as Makoto’s, but not in any way bad.

Makoto’s dash has no sort of invincibility either, and that doesn’t stop her from doing excellent dash under’s, just like it won’t stop Bison. A dash under isn’t meant to be done late, to have invuln frames escape a jump in, it’s meant to go under the opponent while they’re still high enough in the air that your hitbox will fit under them. If you mean to say that Makoto’s hurtbox is further reduced during her dash, when compared to Bison’s, and that it makes dash unders easier, then you may have something. But that’s simply a case of you having to react sooner and inputing the dash sooner to cross under (another department in which the greater distance traveled really gives dash unders a whole other level of effectiveness at surprising the opponent).

@gig4ls:

Regarding the animation, Beta 1 Bison’s dash had a really distinct animation as well (no move even resembles that lunging forward animation), even if it wasn’t a teleport. In the long run, the “tell” of the animation that helps your opponent react will be utterly meaningless, because people will learn the characters’ movement, and know how to react accordingly. Even if his previous animation didn’t jump out as much as a teleport (which it arguably did) to the untrained eye, to a player who knows the game it was just as much of a tell, and the reaction will be the same.

No, I’m not sure how long the previous dash took, but it didn’t seem all that faster, especially considering the recovery has been reduced in the most recent builds for regular tele-dash. And we should also take into account that you have inv frame, even if few, that will potentially make a jab whiff if the opp simply presses it right away as he sees you disappear.

Lastly, there is also the distance traveled issue. I’m pretty certain the tele dash, even the non Vtriggered version, covers significantly more ground than his old dash, which was quite short. Is that only my impression?

All in all, I’d say we’re better off as we are now, and I’d consider the teledash a definite buff.

Idk about the backdash teleport. I have this feeling that if the devs did something like that then it wouldn’t be so good like his forward dash (after reading gig4ls’ post). Like if they gave him more recovery on it. I don’t trust Capcom lol.

Maybe we’re talking about different skill levels, but it feels like the tele dash is much more telegraphed because the movement is unnatural. It’s not like you can fake disappearing by inching forward then crouching or something. Could very well be that more skilled players will react to anything, just seems to me that it’s too off the wall, and since there’s no other tele-backdash or whatever, there’s no guessing game.

This is definitely true. Tele-dash goes about mk sk distance, while beta 1 dash was slightly further than his c mp/s mk.

Appreciate the comments, all very good points.

The backdash teleport doesn’t have to be better than his current backdash, it just has to be visually consistent. The framedata could be exactly the same for all I care. I just think visually at least, this is the way Bison should be represented in the game.

Yeah, but that’s the thing, I wouldn’t think there would be a guessing game. As long as the dash is fast enough to cover significant ground, and grant bison the movement option he needs to close the gap, home in for a bad whiff punish and perform good dash unders, then I believe we’re set to go.

While having a teleport backdash would be good to make his dash less reactable (in this case, and IMO unlike beta 1 bison, we would indeed be able to sort of mix up the opponent with back/front dash, and force an answer that could catch both, if he wanted to secure a punish), I don’t think it’s needed for the dash to serve its purpose as a movement option.

Right now, with the teledash we have the option to play mid-range footsies with s.MK, c.MK, s.MP and c.MP, and use s.HP into vtrigger for longer range confirms, and have the movement options to go for a dash under an attempted jump in, or to dash in and do s.MP > c.MP > inferno for a quick punish on some kind of bad whiff. We can also time the dash to sort of go through the recovery of a whiffed poke and attempt a grab, or poke string, we can dash under neutral jumps at a good distance, etc.

With his old dash, we had mostly none of those options, as it would easily not reach the opp, because it traveled such a short distance and we were confined to using SK for any sort of rapid burst mid range movement (which requires charging and is easily unsafe).

Look at these fuckers voting for Bison. WHY CAN’T THEY LEAVE HIM ALONE?!!!

He’s a noob killer. He does his st.hk and they can’t resist pressing buttons afterwards.

Lets also not forget that 90% of casual players prob can’t even use charge characters and are just mad at the fact that they can’t play as the coolest character in the game.

Their thought process prob goes something along the lines of 'I can’t seem to use this character yet I get rekt by him…NERF !!! :slight_smile:

I like that poll. Shows their fear. I don’t think anyone in Capcom JP or Cfiend cares about a tier list voted by eventhubs players anyway.

I think if the dash teleport were 16f total (like Makoto’s dash in USF4) it’d be good, even with the telegraphed animation.

Actually i don’t want the teleport crossing up like people are asking for. When i’m dashing in i want to get close to my opponent, not pass over them and go far on the other side.

I’ve been wondering if it’s possible to use the teleport as a tool for dashing under from pressure, kinda like the characters with low profile dashes do.

You can dash or s.mp under crossups

The results are in…

Almost 20 percent of the votes. Those noooooobs!!!

How are there noobs when this is literally the truth. Bison is hands down the strangest character.

Strange indeed.