1441

I don’t like the direction they are taking with his V-Trigger, it looks like they want you to play with a way worse version of your character for the majority of the match and you don’t get access to the real version of the character until you fulfill that arbitrary condition to activate your V-Trigger.
Blast and Inferno is purposely made way way worse in Beta 2 in their normal mode to the point where they are near useless with no redeeming qualities (Blast deals 60 and its a slow and punishable charge move with long recovery. You better off with cr.Mp since it deals the same damage and has almost the same or better range).
I would like a more balanced version of him as a character and not making him purposely limited with bad specials just so you can see how V-Trigger makes his specials actually usable and turn him into a versatile and fun character for a short amount of time.

After they introduced VTCancels it already gave characters a good reason to save and use VTC to extends their combos and make certain moves safe. No need to lock all the fun and good stuff behind V-Trigger just so you can make a character feel good.

I like what they did to Zangief V-Trigger so far, it gave him a faster walk speed , slightly better damage and the ability to drag the opponent close to you where Zangief will be at an advantage (the spinning V-Trigger move is projectile invulnerable and can combo into air grab after it hits). It gave him a way around his weaknesses but they didn’t purposely make all his specials slower and weaker just so they can lock all the good stuff behind V-Trigger (at least so far they didn’t). Furthermore, his V-trigger last for quite a while if you don’t use the spinning move so you can take advantage of his faster walk speed to a certain extent. I hope Zangief don’t get most of his good stuff locked behind his v-Trigger like Bison.

I really hope they strike a good balance not just for Bison but for the rest of the cast so everyone V-Trigger can be an addition to an already good character which amplify their strength and circumvent their weakness in a certain way. Sadly from beta 2, it doesn’t seem that this is the direction they are taking.

1442

It seems everyone agrees on Blast’s uselessness. After Beta 2 enteded, I posted some feedback in Capcom Unity. I don’t know if anyone actually reads of care about it, but I did it anyway.

  1. Revert Dash to how it was in Beta 1. Teleporting dash is really not necessary. It’s too slow to be actually useful.

  2. Make V-Trigger EX Headpress faster. At that time I didn’t know it was an excellent combo ender in V-Trigger.

  3. Increase Psycho Blast to 60-70-80 damage, increase stun to 150, increase its hitbox, greatly increase pushback on block, increase meter gain.

  4. Suggestion for LP Psycho Inferno: combo ender designed to knock the enemy down near Bison, allowing him to mantain a stronger pressure on hit than he would landing Scissors Kick. Comboable from Cr.MP, it has poor pushback and blockstun, being unsafe on block (-8). The flame is short and disappears quickly, but the enemy remains near Bison. Damage is 60 and Stun is 70.

  5. Suggestion for MP Psycho Inferno: quick “barrier” that protects him against incoming enemies who come flying at him, like Karin, Rashid and Cammy. Has a quick startup, being comboable from Mediums as well, but it doesn’t knockdown if used as a combo ender. The flame lasts for awhile, but its big recovery time makes it extremely unsafe even on hit if the enemy is not airborne. Damage is 70 and Stun is 100.

  6. Suggestion for HP Psycho Inferno: very slow on startup to the point that no normal can combo into it. The flame lasts the longest, making it the safest option on block. It’s the best version to be used when the opponent is getting up from a knockdown. Damage is 80 and Stun is 150.

  7. Increase CA damage by 20 during V-Trigger. V-Trigger boosts every Psycho Powered move Bison has. Maybe it makes sense to boost this one as well.

  8. During his V-Trigger Backjump Tech (KK), he could teleport backwards instead of jumping. Same speed and distance. No gameplay related buff. Just a visual effect.

1443

I agree with all your points but number 1. I think his forward* and* backward dashes should be short range teledashes, that can go through fireballs with decent start up and recovery. During V-trigger the distance should almost double, and so should the invincibility window, as well as grant him the ability to cross up. It’s just so cool to look at, we can’t go back. If Slayer and Demitri can have it and be balanced around it, so should he of all characters. I believe they already buffed his forward teledash though in the most recent build, we will need to confirm how much though.

Regarding #7, I always thought that Bison’s HP normal attacks should benefit from V-trigger. In Alpha 3, this was noticeable in his HP/C.HP where the hitbox and the damage were buffed. Since Bison imbues his punches with Psycho Power, then visually increasing the flame size, damage, as well as the hit box of his HP/C.HP/DF+HP/SSKD/DR punches during V-trigger makes perfect sense. Probably on the strong side though, but it’s just an idea.

1444

That’s not quite right. Anti-airs which are cancelable tended to be negative on hit in order to punish you for hitting it too late and catching an empty jump once it landed; if you didn’t cancel it then you could get hit, but if you canceled it against an airborne foe you could also get hit. The fact that Bison can’t cancel his and yet is still hugely minus is somewhat of an aberration which I hope gets fixed.

1445

a god? LOL

1446

http://youtu.be/V5mKeEvJ41w

1447

Antiairs were always cancellable during the first frames only, which serve no purpose as antiairs.
Others, like Guile’s, weren’t cancellable at all.

But, seriously, how Cr.HP being not so negative could be any useful? Let’s say its hitstun and blockstun are increased. Who will be using it as against a grounded opponent and why?

1448

In USF4 grounded cr.fierce was used to fish for counter hits after long strings, counter hits into super, and cancels into Red Focus.

In this game? Unless it can crush counter or be cancelled into VT for a combo, useless on grounded opponents?

I don’t get what this talk is about canceling to be safe against a jump in. was this in some older game? It’s not a strategy in SF4. I’ve never seen anyone cancel a cr. fierce into a safe special or something on an empty or late jump in.

1449

I believe they made it notably quicker in the Sim build to the point that it seems to be similarly fast as his dash during V-trigger and from what little I’ve played him during the beta 2 it was actually fairly threatening there. Only shame is that it still can’t cross up.

1450

I love the tele dash and hope he keeps it… I’m not sure if making it cross-up out of V-Trigger would be a good idea though as people would be out in droves with their pitchforks crying for nerf justice.

Bison has always garnered attention of the masses who just seem to outright hate the character and he is a character capcom has been happy to nerf in every iteration of SF4.

One note I will make about the teleport dash is that his V-Trigger just felt that bit more special in the 1st Beta as soon as you activated it you felt like… referencing the thread title… a God :wink:

Like I said I hope he keeps the dash but it does make his V-Trigger feel less special.

1451

It’s not a big deal. We only know about this change because we have been privileged to see and take part in the development of the game. Without this insight, the game would’ve been released with Bison having a teledash from the get go.

So long as the teledash is more OP during V-trigger, it will be enough.

But I do agree, he was more scary with v-trigger activated before, partly because of the unique teledash.

1452

Don’t worry. Surely, when the game is released, the world will know fear.

1453

A good, regular normal dash and a powerful teledash with V-trigger is what I’d prefer. Considering his slow walk speed and lack of reversals I also think his backdash should be a bit better.

1454

Could you go into more detail w.r.t. what you’d like to see from backdash? Fewer total frames? Faster initial (maybe frames 1-4) horizontal movement? Greater total horizontal movement? Currently, backdashes do not have invulnerability frames so it would not really be a defensive/reversal tool so much as a spacing tool.

From a stylistic standpoint, I like the concept of no tele outside of v-trigger, and more tele inside v-trigger. I like the ideas earlier of KK ground recovery being a tele and backdash being tele while in v-trigger. I’m not so much concerned about the viability of specific moves, maybe I’m just jaded from HS being bad for the last 10 years that bad HS and bad psycho blast don’t really phase me.

The more I think about it, the problem I had in beta 2 was that there was no way for me to land damage without baiting mistakes or trading favorably. I only played until about rank 800, but I’m sure if I got to sub 500 or so this would become very difficult. Looking back to beta 1, I think it could be possible/reasonable to design dictator around an ST-style build: no v-trigger dictator is like SF2 (horizontal control, reasonable vertical control, can end the round quickly with ToD but can also get wrecked with no escape options), but once you v-trigger, all of your weaknesses go away and it’s the ToD style danger for the opponent.

1455

I was thinking that it could travel a bit further to give him some added mobility. A dash will always be more risky and less flexible than walking because you are committing to moving a set distance and being defenceless for a period of time. Therefore I don’t think it would take away the design plan of a slow-moving character.

1456

I feel like arguing over the dash being a tele-dash is ridiculous. For one, people LOVED it as the V-trigger dash, and then once the updated beta made it regular dash some Bison players want reneg on the idea which is just silly. Its obvious they they are putting more of an emphasis this time on Bisons psycho flame and all of the energy he creates in his movement, the tele-dash is what they always wanted for Bison in SFV its pretty obvious I highly doubt they would take it away.

1457

The problem with the tele-dash in normal mode is that goes too far forwards. It would have been okay had his walk speed not been complete shit. By comparison; 3S Makoto had really good jump ins and EX Hayate to get in if she wanted too. Bison’s got the Scissors but because it’s charge he has to be more telegraphed if he wants to use it to get in PLUS the Scissors are unsafe on block if they hit twice.

Also tele-dash does not have much (if any) startup invincibility so you can’t really use it to dash under a jump in or you’ll get hit.

1458

So wouldnt a better alternative be to give feedback on the dash properties instead of asking for the dash removed which it wont be?

I mean it seems like Capcom is doing a little more listening this time than usual…and Bison is going to be fucked if the Bison players are preoccupied with some really sillyness.

The inputs on his charges HAVE to be addressed. Dash properties have to be addressed. Frames on specials def have to be addressed.

1459

I think you are either missing the point, or not acknowledging the arguments against tele-dash. The tele-dash’s design is broken.

  1. The tele-dash without v-trigger takes a lot longer than beta 1 dash, or even any other character’s forward dash (with possible exception of dhalsim, I’m not sure). I think someone said around 26 frames. That’s ridiculous when you consider that anything above 15 frames is reactable, and this is almost twice that.
  2. Outside of v-trigger, this is the only move that teleports. This is a huge tell. Unless your opponent is lagging or not paying attention, this will get punished every single time. Dictator could never threaten by walking forward. As of beta 2, he now cannot threaten by dashing forward. Capcom took away one of the pillars of footsies.
  3. I admit some of my misgivings are stylistic. To each their own. But the tele-dash seems very random. It’s the only move that allows him to disappear, and it only works on forward dash. I think it’s an experiment, more than a design choice honestly.

Regarding regular tele-dash startup invincibility, it has none. However, in beta 2 it had invincibility while he disappeared during the mid frames of the dash, so you could dash through fireballs and normal attacks but because of the short invincibility window and large recovery window I don’t think it was possible make a gameplan out of it, unlike when v-trigger is active.

1460

How did I miss the point when I clearly said its more important to address the properties of teledash instead of hoping they remove it which obviously isnt going to happen?