It’s a little early to tell for me, I’ve got some more things to test, but things aren’t looking good. Without a doubt he’s been hit very, very hard with nerfs.
I haven’t found c.hp nerf to be as bad though as people are commenting. It does trade more often and work in fewer situations, but ex inferno covers a lot of ground now, too, especially since its start up is improved.
LK SK being punishable on block is stupid though. Teleport dash is reactable. He seems like a character right now that will have week 1 and 2 leverage while people don’t know how to handle some moves and then go straight downhill as people catch on.
He also seems to be a quite low damage character now. st.rh, c.mp xx mk sk is doing under 200 dmg. It was already low for a bnb at 224 in the last beta. And with no scissors being safe, what is with the low damage? And I thought Karin was a low damage character…
Still can’t activate scissors by pressing down-forward. If you could, you could get rh sk VTC c.mp xx inferno. Hope they fix this soon.
I’ll post up more thoughts later after I work through a few things. I’ve found a few things to be happy about, but not a whole lot.
This isn’t CVS2. Bison has limited mobility here, but you can refer to my previous posts in this thread for why this is a bad idea in this game. But it wouldn’t be about SK pressure anyway, it would still be negative, just not -3+.
Oh man the nerfs are too severe in certain aspects. His cr.Hp received a damage nerf if you hit at the later frames you get 70 damage. His damage are way lower than the other characters in his normal mode.
GENERAL FEELING
People around here aren’t used to Bison and maybe they haven’t that exp in the game, but I pulled something like a 90% winrate. More than 30 bison matches.
I personally think he’s fine. Seriously. I tried Necalli yesterday and today. After hours and hours, playing Bison is a relief. Bison has SO MANY TOOLS. It’s much, much easier to adapt with him. He can do anything. Attack, defend, evade. With Bison, I felt confident that I could find an answer to anything the enemy threw at me. I know some of us are used to his SFIV pokes, but, believe me. His normals are godly for SFV standards. Cr.MP is too good. Dominates a certain range where some character feel awkward. S.MP and S.MK poke very well with excellent startup and frame advantage.
IN COMPARISON TO SFIV
Bison in SFIV is bad design. He’s supposed to attack, but requires charge and everything he does pushes the opponent away. He’s supposed to run away from the enemy, but he’s susceptible to many Option Selects it isn’t even funny. Well, SFV Bison is the exact opposite of SFIV Bison, and THAT’S WHY HE WORKS. He has an AA, he can deal damage and stun, he can poke, he can connect his super, he can punish, he ignores fireballs, he doesn’t care about Guile. He doesn’t run away (he shouldn’t hahaha, he should scare, not run).
IN COMPARISON TO BETA 1:
Damage was nerfed, but everyone had nerfs. Bison’s heavies were around 90 in Beta 1. Ryu’s were 100 (more than most). Now everyone got -10 damage. It seems heavies deal 150 stun for all the cast as well. Bison’s damage reduction should not be seen as “nerf” because he’s not been weakened to be easier to be dealt with. He was merely adjusted to fit the new standards.
-English voice added. Same voice actor from SFIV.
-Regular dash has been greatly buffed. Works as a less powerful variant of his V-Trigger dash. Has full invulerable during the “middle frames”. Doesn’t cross up. Range and speed seem to be the same as his old regular dash, but seems to take longer.
-S.LP cancels into specials. Can’t remember very well, but I THINK only S.LK could be cancelled into specials before.
-Cr.MK no longer combos into Cr.MP.
-Cr.HP seems a little bit slower, but felt no changes to the hibox. Still godly antiair.
-S.HK can be used as Crush Counter. Combos into DF+HP and S.HP, which is nice to land a Heavy Scissors Kick. Example of a combo that used this: S.HK CC > DF+HP > Cr.MP > Scissors EX
-DF+HP is buffed. Deals 1 hit, but still combos into Cr.MP. Why a buff? Because if it remained as a 2 hit move, the second hit woud nullify the counter hit’s frame advantage. Well, it can also be used as crush counter. In conjuction with DPs granting punishes counter hit capabilities, this means Bison can deal serious damage to those who DARE defy him with random DPs.
-Cr.HK no longer CCs. Small nerf. Whatever.
-Psycho Inferno had its startup greatly reduced.
-Psycho Inferno is now unsafe on block unless meaty.
-Psycho Inferno’s flames are shorter.
-Scissors LK is now -3 on block. V-Trigger Scissors wasn’t changed, however. Still safe.
-Inputting V-Trigger during Scissors makes Bison automatically cancel its second hit. Scissors HK has enough hitstun to make a combo extender from it. S.HP > Scissors HK > V-Trigger > Cr.MP > Scissors EX works.
-EX Headpress’s tracking has been GREATLY buffed. It’s much faster and Bison doesn’t even jump as high if the enemy is not jumping. Seems to be airborne from the first frame, as I managed to avoid a command grab by using this move as a wakeup move (old habits, sorry).
-EX Headpress’s stun is concentrated in the last hit to avoid stunning the enemy before the move deals all of its damage.
-Horizontal control after touching the enemy with a EX Headpress has been increased.
-More moves cancel into V-Trigger: DF+HP, S.HK, Inferno. This creates these situations:
a) DF+HP > V Trigger > stuff
b) Psycho Inferno on block > V-Trigger > Crossup dash.
-V-Trigger Scissors damage is now different depending on the strength.
-V-Trigger depletes V-Meter faster, but specials don’t deplete as much as before. Compensation, I guess.
-V-Trigger EX Blast cancelled into EX Headpress doesn’t connect anymore even withouth teching. Regular blast still works.
-Super had a small damage reduction, but CAs don’t scale below 50% anymore (overall system rule), so in a way, it’s more usable.
-Super requires Punch instead of Kick now. Still 2x Quarter Circle Foward.
-The command list is now available. DF+HP is Psycho Axe.
-Bison takes Counter Hit if hit during his V-Skill (like Ryu).
-V-Skill absorb seems to increase V-Trigger meter instead of Super.
-System change. Crush Counter increases V-Gauge. S.HK is +3 on block and +5 on hit, which means… SPAM DAT SHIT. Godly normal.
-System change. Activating V-Trigged mid combo counts as a move for scaling purposes.
Other stuff:
*I think charge times were reduced. Crossup J.MK > S.LP > S.LP > Scissors LK works. I think it didn’t before. Also, I used to miss Headpress a lot more in Beta 1. Used to get many Neutral Jumps Kicks instead of the actual special move. This kind of stuff hasn’t happened yet in the new Beta.
*Is Psycho Axe an overhead now? Edit: Checked. Not an overhead.
*I don’t care about Scissors -3. It’s not easy to punish because everyone seems to have shorter range in this game. I could use Psycho Blast anyway.
*Example of something new using some new stuff combined: Ken does a DP. Bison blocks and: S.HK (counter hits) > DF+HP > Cr.MP > Scissors EX. Has V-Trigger possible? Then S.HK > S.HP > Scissors HK > V-Trigger > Cr.MP > Scissors LK > Psycho Inferno EX.
*Remember that V-Trigger enhances Bison’s stun damage for his specials.
*EX Scissors received no damage nerf. Deals high damage in comparison to other specials in the game now.
*I know most people here are used not to Headpress, but, please, use this move. Its GREAT in this game.
*It should be noted that, with new values, Bison’s throw remains strong. 130 damage from throws is not the rule now. Most deal 110. Personally, it’s deserving. Fthrow is simply the best throw in this game animation wise. Too stylish.
^ Very nice information there, people should not care much about Scissors -3 on block because not everyone has 3 frames start up move with great range
We should take used to new Bison strategy now, which is not similar much to his SFIV
Spam Cr.mp, S.HK, confirm it to combo, do not spam Scissor or any special after that because Chip Damage is removed already
Yes, it goes further, and yes it has more invincibility frames and crosses up. I haven’t compared recovery or when invincibility frames start, it could just be that it has more invincibility frames in the middle because the dash takes longer from start to end.
Think I jumped the gun, Bison is still a beast…just personally don’t think he needed the nerfs tbh.
Anyhow gunna call it a night for todays Beta, played way to much that I feel disorientated lol.
Jump back air-to-air MP has served me well and seems to have good hitbox priority against all the jump happy b-tards online trying cross up relentlessly.
I know we disagree about the importance of SK being -3 on block, but I just wanted to say this is a great summary post. We are all on the same team here.
One thing though is that psycho blast’s range has been reduced and it is now heavily negative on block. An opponent can respond with mediums at least. It could have replaced SK at certain ranges (the ranges I wasn’t concerned with) but now it probably won’t even be able to do that because of its short range and small push back. Still trying to figure out what Capcom has in mind for this move…
You can’t get scissors to come out without pressing directly forward and kick. Watch your inputs in training mode. We’re crossing our fingers that Capcom fixes this.
The new HK is actually very good. Great hitbox and frames. Combos into c.mp, positive on block and hit.
Thanks for that. I would actually be able to figure some stuff out if I wasnt matched with an opponent every 5 fucking seconds I keep getting thrown in the blender when I cant even learn the character properly.
and LOL @ Capcom making charge characters command characters now, but you cant execute bisons charge specials if you hit the diagonals. What…in…thee…fuck
s.HP no longer links into c.MP. Pretty sure c.MP got nerfed.
Super kissed that Psycho Inferno got nerfed so hard. Now SFV Bison has two new moves that are borderline useless. Why bother? Why is it a charge motion?
I can’t believe they nerfed Psycho Blast range. Who even used it?
That dude Alphabee was doing some weird frame trap shit with st.HK and then cr.MP into Scissors. A lot of st.MP then cr.Jab or another st.HK. It’s possible that Birdie is just free to Bison frame traps tho.
EX Devil falls faster, deals much more damage, more stun and seems to work like a jump in. I think Bison is + on block.
V-EX reappears faster. It’s much more dangerous as a mixup.
I’m still trying to figure out what to do with EX-Devil’s reverse in general. Can’t find any cross ups consistent with Devil’s
Vtriggered Psycho Inferno and Psycho Blast are really good. Don’t sleep on it because the normal ones are negative on block. They both knockdown at their own distances and you can use that to your advantage for pressure since Knee Press does not knock down anymore.
