Haha yeah that quote I think probably sums up every third strike player’s experience. Well, if they really like the game that is.
That happened to me.
There’s a moment of despair and doubt. Did you ever actually know how to play? Like you said, the ceiling is so high.
The person who did that to me (well one of them) said he felt the same before when he first played BOSS. That all of his decisions were wrong.
Somehow it looks like negative perceptions of parry might not be welcome here.
They are if they hold water, most of the negative perceptions of parry are full of holes though.
It seems like you have already written off most concerns about why it is cancer. You seem to have already decided the critics just don’t know.
EDIT: I don’t hate parrying. I think that the terrible gutter garbage offensive capablilites of the characters in 3rd makes something like parry(which ruins any semblance of earned advantage in the blink of an eye) ridiculous overkill. This in combination with the poorly designed space control of the game makes parry incredibly bad to me. I cannot think of a game which I consider good with offense as poor as 3rd. And to answer this offense with the most powerful defensive technique in fighting game history creates the turtle game that I have learned to hate so very much.
Parries have no problems. The problem is that some characters have limited options off Parries as opposed to other characters. If every character had the ability to do good damage with or without meter from a standing Parry at max range then no one would be crying about Parries.
Hyperbole isn’t what this is about. No one who has put in the time (like you’re implying) and just doesn’t like the way parry influences the game is written off. Trying to get your two cents in and a rise out of people is kind of juvenile.
What is a game you consider good with great offense then? Explain where your opinion comes from. I don’t think 3S is the greatest thing ever. I think it’s my favorite fighting game though.
3rd strike has the weakest high/low and hit/throw game that I know of with the most slow unrewarding overheads and the smallest throw range with the greatest ease of punishability on wiff.
In addition, the screen is huge, moves that characters throw out have basically no range in movement or attack hitboxes relative to this massive screen. This leads to a spacing game which is centered around dominating the range in and around low forward, or keeping weaker characters from entering this space.
You keep saying '…that I know of…'
What are these other games and what do they do better?
This isn’t some kind of jab. I am just curious since while I’ve played a smattering of games, I can’t say I really know very many that well.
I definitely understand what you mean about low forward. it’s a sort of critical spacing across the board and it’s clear a lot was worked out around that spacing.
Your problems with the game aren’t really consistent across the cast either. Is that a large part of what you dislike? How some characters are blessed with great overheads and hit to damage conversion or ability to dominate low forward space, etc. Others aren’t and what they’re given instead doesn’t make up for what they lack?
I would like to use yatagarasu as an example despite my being new at it. It is also probably easier to understand yata as a 3rd player. In yata, every character is capable of playing the low forward wiff punish game, this is a tool umezono believed everyone should have. Most every character can convert damage by playing an intelligent footsie game.
Throws have much greater range, and when you use uoh you are guaranteed a good combo(regardless of spacing or meaty timing) with everyone but chadha(main grappler). Each character is allowed a good knockdown hit confirm from something as simple as a low short.
There is also a guard bar and a move which causes instant guard break(easily recognizable and parryable of course).
The normals are given greater frame advantage in general, and super jump arcs are lower and closer to kof hyper hops. Parries yield less frame advantage when successful and yield more frame advantage to the attacker upon failure.
These are just a few examples of things that I see as obvious improvements. If you think the game I just described sounds too homogenous or something, then I think you haven’t played it. I was merely trying to list what I see as balancing factors, not the unique or deep parts of individual characters.
I think louis might know yata better than me, and I have only been playing for the past 2 weeks. It seemed like maybe he was hinting at yata with his last post.
Sure, that’s one game that may do things better. But you said that 3rd Strike had the worst offense in any game you knew of, which is pretty puzzling.
I can confirm that at least SF4 has a far worse offensive game than 3S outside of advanced okizeme setups and arguably the throw/frametrap-game though. A2 wasn’t particularly aggressive either.
Thinking about it, most games with better offensive options are usually not Street Fighter-games.
I have Yatagarasu and played an earlier version a bit.
I put in money on the indiegogo campaign and all, just haven’t gotten around to playing the final version.
I’ll have to spend some time with it.
Sf4 isn’t even human nor a good example of street fighter. Alpha is a little weird but the spacing of the characters, screen, and movement seems more in line. Super turbo is the obvious counter argument to yours. Super turbo is also considered to be a good representation of what fighting games are about in terms of screen control and the throw mixup.
If I am to be perfectly transparent I am mostly into vampire savior and accent core as a player. I consider accent core to be as close to perfection as any fighter will ever be. To try and explain the virtues of those games in relation to 3rd strike would do neither justice. I am not going to be able to sell you on either of those games unless I am playing right next to you.
EDIT: on the contrary, if anyone is serious about learning vampire or guilty and would like to hear it from a fellow 3rd strike player, I would be ecstatic to help you.
Yatagarasu is pretty bad. For some reason there’s 5 dudes here who think it’s GDLK and belongs at Evo even though there’s like 2-3 people online at peak hours.
The Parries are completely retarded. They’re buttons and they work like this: you can Parry while blocking but the parry window is like 3-4 frames. Or you can Parry while holding forwards (specifically forwards, it can’t be neutral) and the Parry window is supposedly 8 frames but for me it feels like 10 frames easily. Parry window just feels massive in comparison to 3S, it’s too generous I feel. And because Parries are buttons it’s easy as fuck to OS.
Not everyone has a good low forward. Low forward’s don’t seem to have a lot of reach, Sweeps have good reach. There’s a lot of other weird things about it that remind you that it definitely is nothing like 3S. The Oki game is entirely different in Yata, you cannot bait Parries in that shit, and characters have a random grab bag of specials and supers that have startup invincibility.
I feel bad that I hyped it up two years ago and got a few 3S dudes here into it because I was under the impression that the Indiegogo was going to improve the game. Because the base game at the time was pretty meh but I honestly thought this could be improved upon. But all the Devs did was add three characters, incorporated the Steam API, and got a few new voice actors and recorded a few extra lines for the original cast. Oh, and brought James Chen and Maximilian on board as announcers because the announcers were the most hype aspect of the game [details=Spoiler]said fucking no one ever.[/details] . They hardly did any rebalancing as they promised and got $10K for (The Grappler was the only character to get significant changes, and aside from a new normal there wasn’t much else) . Plus they launched the game without GGPO (and they got another $10K for that) and there has been zero word as to when they will implement that.
The devs probably took the extra $20K they scammed and had a trip to soap land.
Wow glad to remind myself that I don’t agree with louis on anything!
Well, comparing GGAC to an SF game is like comparing Starcraft to Company of Heroes, or comparing Quake to Call of Duty. Technically in the same genre and control in fairly similar ways at a superficial level, but that’s where the similarities end.
I have no experience with GGAC and the chances that I’ll ever get to play it against another human being is slim, so I can’t comment on that (though rumor has it it’s got very strong offensive options on average). I like VSav a lot though, even though pretty much nobody here plays it. Still, you can compare pretty much any game to VSav and make it seem like it has bad offense.
As for ST: I agree about everything you said, hence me saying “most games with better offensive options are usually not Street Fighter-games”. It doesn’t have a better high/low-game on average, but the throw- and pressure game is so strong that nobody cares.
it’s funny you mention accent core.
I was going to just guess off the top of my head earlier and say you were primarily a GG player.
KoF 2002/3, Guilty Gear XX #Reload and Third Strike were the first fighting games I tried to really understand.
Sol is still one of the most fun characters to play in any fighting game.
I also love Rikuo. I am not even remotely skilled with him (or Sol) but I enjoy them when I have the chance to play.
Or even just alone in the case of Sol, I can practice viper loops for hours I think. I love that hurtbox mechanic.
edit: So in case it wasn’t clear, you don’t need to sell me on either lol. Both Savior and Accent Core are incredible games that I hold up there with 3S as real gems. I personally feel at home with the flow and rhythm in 3S but I am always looking to try something new.
We’re kind of all over the place now which is totally fine. I like discussions that meander.
Perhaps I only argued half of my point. Vampire savior has crazy offense as does guilty gear, however the defensive options available to you in those two games are varied and not as easy to use or powerful as 3rd strike parry. I mentioned the guard bar, guard breaker, and stronger highs and lows in yatagarasu as my examples of how the game necessitates and balances parrying as a defensive maneuver.
“That’s it”? What about the main reason you parry, to frame-punish moves that are safe when blocked? Isn’t that the main use of a parry in any fighting game with a parry?
What I meant by that is parry itself doesn’t do more than that. I actually forgot to include the plus frames.
Beyond that is down to specifics and/or the next decision both players make which is a guess.
I wouldn’t say that’s the main reason to parry. It’s one reason to parry. I wasn’t stating a reason though, that was just me saying what parry actually does alone.
If you wanted to state it as simply as possible you could say the main reason to parry is to create an advantageous situation for the parry’er. More specific than that and we could list tons of examples.