5562

That is a very good point, I didn’t think of the extra benefits of more mpen. That, added to the versatility of doing more damage to high MR opponents as well as slightly less damage to low MR opponents definitely make it the better option IMO. Unless the entire team never got any MR items (leaving their MR at what? ~30 lol)

5563

it’d probably also be a better comparison to compare void staff + blasting wand+book since that would be about the same cost as the deathcap.

5564

Well, because here is what I have understood about League of Legends, and maybe yall could clear up anything if I am stating something incorrectly from all my reading.

Generally in the team you will have 1 tank, 1 support, 1 AD carry, 1 AP carry, and then a 5th guy that will make it so you don’t have too much AP/AD or lack of CC/sustain. From my gaming experience, you really want to min/max things. An AP Master Yi’s main damage comes from Q which does his magic damage. If he had some cool CC or something I would say sure, build him AP and have a ball. But he does not have CC. Even if he had support, there are fewer supports that could cater to his Q, likewise there is little that Q does to cater to teammates. His passive does nothing for his Q or W, and W does not contribute to anyone except himself.

So for the sake of playing a character who can only contribute to the team with a Q dealing magic damage, you are passing up a slot who could do magic damage with more than one ability, but have CC to contribute to the team (because honestly can’t think of an AP carry or whatnot that does not have some form of CC). As an AD Yi, you contribute to the team by having a ton of damage due who needs support. I understand that a team can CC/burst Yi down, but that’s the point of teams having synergy. I can understand a team picking Yi for AD since you can play to his strengths, but AP Yi just strikes me as a solo que champ.

In short, I compare AP Yi with other AP champs because you are trying to fill your AP slot. Since you have to divide your team’s damage, or else the enemy team can counter your entire team’s damage too easily, you might as well pick an AP champion who will maximize your team’s potential/synergy. I see nothing that Yi can contribute/have strengthened as AP but at least SOMETHING as AD.

5565

Well, your logic is pretty spot on. But there’s one thing missing is the question “why not?” If someone really wants to build an AP Yi, then why not look at the best way to maximize the effectiveness of that idea? On that note, if a team really wants to, they’ll build a team of 5 supports, or 5 AD carries, and so on. Sure, having 5 supports might not be the best idea to win but the point might not be to win, but to have fun and troll people.

Also, honestly, thinking that the team setup you mentioned is the best way to win is dangerous. As a matter of fact, thinking that there’s only 1 way to do -anything- is dangerous. That’s the kind of thinking that gets you stuck without the ability to innovate or be creative in general. For example, my friend picked up Morde and kept hearing for about a month how he needs to build morde as an AP carry-ish type of character. After months of not listening, he found the right build for Morde where he plays as an immortal douche bag that never dies. He carries the game in a sense where he doesn’t die and is able to set up otherwise impossible setups. I’ve never seen or heard of someone being able sit at the opponent’s base and hold off the entire team, watch them go back and heal, then take them on again. I’ve never seen him defeated, especially by enemy mordes. He doesn’t listen to the established order for most of his character builds and all his mains are “off the beaten path” if that makes sense. Anyways, this is getting really rambly and off-topic so yeh.

5566

AP yi is fun, but he can fail so easily. He nneds to be really opportunistic, take advantage of the fact that his skills reset when he people die, that way you can get two or three huge alpha strikes in a row.

He can initiate too, alpha strike in and then heal, followed by another alpha strike. It’s all so easy to disrupt though…

5567

Are we seriously arguing the viability of AP Yi?

Really SRK? Really?

5568

So not that I’m totally disagreeing with you because he is a sub par champ. You can’t just look at at the late game team comp, you also have to look at the lane phase which AP yii is actually quite strong at. In addition he also still hits towers pretty hard so if you want someone who can contribute heavily to taking down towers and need more magic damage yii can be a solid choice. In addition like I’ve said mutliple times his Q can put out SUPER retarded damage if someone dies to it, most team fights don’t end with 5 people alive on either side, which means someones going to die in almost every team fight. If that someone dies to yii’s alpha strike he’s going to deal tremendous damage to the enemy team which can let him clean up fights really well if you have good initiates.

As for your roles thing I think it’s slightly off. I think you’re focusing too much on an MMO style team comp and completely ignoring the laning part of the game. Right now the meta is support bot, RANGED ad carry(melee physical carry are not really acceptable here), neither version of yii fits in bot lane. Mage mid, that’s sorta similar to AP carry(which doesn’t really exist as it won’t be doing any carrying) which AD yii can’t fill but AP yii kinda can(there are certainly other mages with litte/no cc). Top lane which is basically your “fifth guy” they can be physical or magical, some have CC some don’t, they are usually bulky. Top and mid both pose the same problem to AD yii, he has weak harass, weak sustain, and is not resilient to burst damage, there’s no way he’s going to survive against competent people that go either lane. AP yii on the other hand has very strong harass and very strong sustain because of his awesome AP ratios(4 to 1 on his heal and 1 to 1 on alpha strike), his harass is also generally safe if you use it intelligently. The last role is jungler which AD yii can totally do, but he’s pretty sub par at it(as is AP yii in top and mid but still), jungler is also genreally a “fifth guy”.

Even using your method of roels, tank isn’t a real roel(it’s more like a few members are tankY and one person has some sort of initiate which can be things like ash arrows or urgot ults), AD carry isn’t specific enough because no one uses a melee as their AD carry, it’s always range. Again AP carry isn’t really a role, or you misnamed it as they won’t be carrying, with the exception of like rumble, ryze, morde, maybe kennen AP characters don’t carry. Generally the ‘main ap’ is someone who has a solid lane, some CC and/or really good poke, and enough damage that they can’t just ignore MR. Take away Yii’s qualification for AD carry, and what is he? A “fifth guy” just like AP yii.

5569

The word is “role” not “rolls”. smh.

</spellingnazi>

5570

Not all of us, lol. When does full patch notes usually drop? Rotation is up but no notes so far.

5571

Also, I have to put this out here.

Yes. I think almost everyone is doing that. What gives a champion a “role” is something like 80% their skills and 20% the items built in-game. It honestly makes me a little mad when I hear someone say “insert champ here is a glass cannon” because that is not the truth. The player builds him like a weak-ass pansy. In all reality, at level 1, everyone’s stats are almost identical. The only solid differences between champs are their abilities. Some get CC, some get lifesteal, some get a crappy double attack on the 7th hit (which can be brutal)… Keep in mind, that this isn’t WoW. just because you built yourself as a Tank, it doesn’t mean you’ll get any attention. It’s actually backwards. You get picked on if you’re squishier, only that makes it tough to initiate and live lol.

5572

While I’m personally totally cool with people doing whatever they want it’s just as dangerous to ignore the beaten path as it is to pretend like it’s the ONLY path. Yeah that team comp I listed above isn’t the only possible one but it has proven time and time again that it is the most successful. There’s plenty of other stuff to try out, and the game is constantly changing through patches so we never know when a new thing may become the best. But most of the time I see people ignoring the beaten path it’s not like they are doing something unique and interesting, they are just doing what they want for no reason. 5 supports isn’t ignoring the meta it’s bad planning, as is several ranged carry’s etc… Ignoring the meta is not having a jungler but putting a super aggressive kill lane top and hard to gank lanes mid and bot, or running kill lane bot and having one of the few good solo/jungle ranged ads, or even 4 supports 1 carry, it’s kinda stupid but it’s at least a plan.

Chances are if it’s working it’s because they aren’t at the level where they are getting punished for it. Everything you said about your friends mord sounds like “Play ken and mash uppercut all day, no one can beat it!”, it’s not quite that bad but it’s the same idea(works awesome against scrubs not so good at high level). Actually I’l explain, the main reason is that mord doesn’t deal much damage without ap and he has no escapes so he’s really easy to gank. There are a lot of things that low level people don’t do, one of those is gank, and another is build smart. They don’t gank well and mord is good/easy at 1 v 1 so he’s going to go completely out of control with last hits and probably messing up his lane opponent, and the enemy team will probably be stupid and not buy any/much MR(they should probably be doing it anyway, and should especially be doing if an AP guy is going out of control). A good team vs tank mord will just ignore him and kill his team while he feebly beats on them without any CC and low damage, he won’t have nearly as much farm/levels because he probably couldn’t bully his lane opponent super hard because the jungler had his back. AP mord on the other hand can be almost as bulky because of spell vamp, yeah he won’t tank the entire team, but neither will tank mord unless he gets fed, can blow up carry’s and if he get’s a carry ghost the team fight is essentially over.

Anyway I’m not saying “follow the meta/established builds always and forever exactly as stated”, but if you’re doing something else accept that it’s probably sub par or analyze and understand the norm and why yours is different/situationally better.

edit:

you saw NOTHING!

edit: also again i’m not trying to super insult your friend or anything, a lot of the game comes down to play style, so tanky morde may just be what he’s skilled at. I largely believe playing something you are good with is better than good team comp/established builds. Sorry if it seemed like I came off harsh at all.

5573

So I’d estimate Miss Fortune is rocking a pair of DDs. Agree/disagree?

5574

Agree. But I like Nid better. French maid ftfw.

5575

I still want french made blitz crank skin(maid outfit same size as nids, just stretched out).

5576

new patch notes make me want to punch a kid in the face. stop fucking with ahri cds jesus!! and they touch cass and revolver at the same time. just nerfed my cass, QQ. i use to build WOTA and revolver on cass, lol.

5577

Xerath skins are ass >_<

5578

lol, you should have seen them when he first came out. the ones now are actually better than his original versions, lol

5579

Ahri and Cass are two of the most common AP bans/picks. Why wouldn’t they address them?

Patch notes look pretty good to me. They are hitting a lot of the top champions without blasting them with insane numbers changes, and hitting the early spellvamp of WotA builds.

5580

i dont know about you, but i dont recall the last time ive seen cass banned in any elo. honestly though my gripe about the 2 of them being nerfed is they are hard champs to play, this is like the 3rd time ahri is getting nerfed, it just makes me feel like whats the point? might as well pick someone who can land the damage easier. ahri is supposed to be a mobile assasin, they continue to nerf the “mobile” part, lol. i would have been content with just the 1 second between rushes nerf, but the cd nerf, enough is enough. it feels like ahri is heading down orianna’s road, lol.

5581

I’m getting tired of all the revolver nerfs. I remember when the thing gave like 20% spellvamp and stacked. And then Vlad happened. And now Vlad’s happening again and it gives like 12%. I’m sure it’s more than just Vlad right now, but I’m sure he contributed. I really don’t understand why they’re so averse to reworking Vladimir. They’ve said several times that he’s one of, if not the most poorly designed champions in the game, and they still haven’t done anything other than just buffs/nerfs.

I’m liking the looks of the Shen changes though. I’ve always enjoyed him, but I’ve never had much luck with him. Can’t wait to give him another shot.

I skimmed over the earlier Ashe discussion, and I really don’t think she’s a bad champ. Back in the summer, she was pretty much the top carry. The only differences now are a slight CD nerf on her ulti and Vayne and Graves existing. I think she’s really underrated right now, kind of like Ezreal was (or is; I haven’t been following things much since SCV came out). She’s still the only carry that can permaslow your entire team, and her ulti is still one of the best initiations in the game.