League of Legends thread 2.0! UPDATES ON FIRST POST!

tolore · 2012-02-13T23:17:51.000Z

well if you’re main items are gunblade and deathfire lichbane is going to feel pretty crappy since you don’t have much AP to proc it. You should actually probably just build a sheen and leave it like that since his base AD is pretty high. I personally would just build him like a mage. Couple dorans rings, boots, death cap, void staff, lichbane, GA. Maybe i’ll math up some damage outputs during lunch/tonight.

Ken34 · 2012-02-13T23:34:57.000Z

yea, double dorans, deathcap, void staff sounds pretty legit. but spirit visage sounds pretty interesting on yi. but wouldnt you then wanna build wota or gunblade to supplement the visage? like build it before deathcap?

Broryuken · 2012-02-13T23:43:11.000Z

AP Yi sucks. I hate when I get one of those in game. Sigh.

tolore · 2012-02-13T23:56:36.000Z

Honestly Yi is just a bad character, I wouldn’t really want either on my team. Essentially the differences are you can stick AP yi mid/top and know he won’t lose the lane and you can ignore his existence, AD yi you can toss in the jungle and ignore his existence. Either one can wreck shop if your opponents suck, but both can just as easily be useless.

Jerishow · 2012-02-14T01:11:31.000Z

Are armor pen red and quints generally better than ad reds and quints?

u_mad · 2012-02-14T01:28:28.000Z

Generally most people run AD Quints with some choice of only ArPen Reds, ArPen+AD Reds, or only AD Reds.

Hugh Mad.

tolore · 2012-02-14T01:40:18.000Z

depends on how much you use skills that scale with AD and how well they scale(and that these moves that scale with AD do physical damage). Also AD runes make last hitting easier.

tolore · 2012-02-14T02:22:31.000Z

yii math!

deathcap, void staff, lich bane, 2X dorans ring

407 ap
111 base AD
35 bonus, wuju(doubled to 70)

707 damage alpha strik(AOE!)
558 lich bane auto attack(739 if you are cool and double strike it)

1446 single target burst

gold 10315

Hextech gunblade, deathfire grasp, void staff, spirit visage

200 ap
111 base ad
35 bonus, wuju(doubled to 70)
40 bonus AD items

500 damage alpha strike
221 auto attack(442 if you are cool and double strike it)
300 hextech shot
37% of their current health

1242 burst + 37% of current

10080

So clearly the hextech build has far superior single target burst so long as all it’s item cool downs are up, and clearly superior sustained auto attack dps considering the AD from the gunblade. But in a team fight you get an extra 207 damage per target above the hex tech build with the original build and every time you get an alpha strike cool down you get another extra 207 damage per target and another 337 from sheen proc(plus more sheen procs if you use your other abilities well). I personally prefer the first build since it makes even a single death on the enemy team likely to turn the fight into a complete steam roll from the bonus alpha strike(and thus sheen proc).

edit: I can redo this if you think the void staff should be replaced in the second build, I just threw it in to shore up the money difference and so I didn’t have to calculate what the difference MR made was.

BIG_BAD_MOG · 2012-02-14T03:41:43.000Z

Here’s the thing I have gathered. Sure AP Yi is a new playstyle, but I still fail to see what makes it better than AD Yi. Yes AD Yi is squishy…but so are a lot of carries. I find that the payoff for having a team synergized with AD Yi much stronger than AP Yi. Ever since doing a game with Morgana, Kayle, Zilean, Yi, and someone else, Yi was simply a wrecking machine. Granted you could do the same with other AD carries like Tryn, Vayne, Graves, and whatnot to get a better combo, but who are you going to put with AP Yi to make him shine? He has the sustain with leveling up that W, but it’s not going to make people focus all their attention on him. Your Q will do massive damage…but then why don’t you go with an AP carry for better burst+CC like Veigar, Brand, Cassiopeia, so on so forth.

The argument just reminds me of the whole AD vs AP Miss Fortune. She is meant to be AD but AP built also has its merits. Thing is she is a bad character in general it seems because although her AD outperforms her AP build by an OK amount, her AD build cannot outperform a good amount of the roster. I guess in the end I am just wondering why go for a build that plays differently when a certain build is better in terms of min/max? A good example of AP Yi synergy would totally shut me up though.

BTW for Riven since I decided to go with a melee solo top champ. If I cannot burst a person down with my combo, should I just burst with what I can and then gtfo? Another thing is during team fights, it seems that they immediately turn their attention on me as if I was Twitch so I can’t do the whole Q->autoattack rotations. Should I just blow the entire Q rotation, slam the W, then gtfo with what autoattacks I can?

AYO · 2012-02-14T03:48:47.000Z

Replace the Void Staff in the second build with Deathcap and let me know what you get, this is interesting.

I really don’t see anyone arguing AD v AP, the only people bringing it up are the one’s in favor of AD trying to start an argument. We are just talking about different builds and having a productive conversation in here for once.

Pacifist · 2012-02-14T03:56:54.000Z

Honestly Yi is just a bad character

Pretty much. This doesn’t just go for him either. For example, despite Ashe’s recent buff, she also one of the characters stuck as one of the low IP l2p LoL characters, same as Yi. It’s not that they aren’t viable, just that they get overshadowed by the newer heroes who have incorporated newer designs/tactics into the game. It’d be much better if in cases like these, Riot actively reviewed older heroes that are losing play and re-evaluate their kits for outdated abilities (coughashepassivecough). Obviously that’s not their focus, as the money flows from new heroes and skins.

Too many people get caught up on streams from higher level players and recent tournaments as to what is viable and what isn’t. If you’re playing a ranked game? Sure, bust that shit out and try and get the advantage, I can understand that. If I’m playing a normal game though, regardless of draft or blind, I don’t want to be hearing about how TheSaintDyrusGG doesn’t approve of my hero choice and that I need to play this other hero, or I’m making us lose on the hero select screen.

AYO · 2012-02-14T04:04:07.000Z

But they do update champs? There is even plans for a Mundo and Evelynn overhaul sometime this year if Morello is to be believed.

I dislike people telling me who to play as well, or people assuming all I play is AP Yi and never AD or any other champ just because we are having a discussion about a particular play style. AP Yi is fun to me personally, and the whole point of playing a game is to have fun I think…I could be entirely wrong though.

tolore · 2012-02-14T04:08:37.000Z

err first off MF is an awesome physical carry and even when the forums have stupidly declared her UP she has seen tournament play.

The big thing for AP yii vs AD yii is they actually play differently, AP yii sustains and harasses WAY harder in lane(AD yii is an awful laner, his best bet is being supported in bot but that’s still REALLY bad compared jus tusing an actual ranged ad carry) he can actually handle a solo very well. In team fights AP yii adds more burst, and like I mentioned has CRAZY snowball potential if even a single person goes down since his alpha strike hits so hard.

My riven harass is generally Q-Q-Q-Auto-W-auto-E away, usually not all of the Q’s hit. In team fights you should be bulky enough to take fire and survive if your team is following up. She scales so stupidly well with AD you can afford to pick up a GA farily early(I got bruta->thirster->GA) and still output crazy damage. You should be all up in their business with damage shields, mobility, and damage output(and your aoe stun!).

I can try it with replacing the void staff with death cap, but that may actually LOWER damage and will raise the cost by 1400.

edit: I strongly disagree with ashe not being a good character, her ult is just plain too good for that to ever be true. Yii is bad, but he has his place. His damage output is absolutely nuts(I beleive highest in the game) for AD yii and he’s a decent jungle, he just offers no CC and is very squishie. AP Yii is a pretty awesome laner and can do CRAZY burst if someone dies to his initial alpha strike
(thousands of damage to tne entire enemy team in seconds with very little chance to hurt him).

Pacifist · 2012-02-14T04:10:24.000Z

They say they do. “Reworks” do happen…not always for the best.

The point is to the have fun, just don’t go into a ranked game and play with those builds. Too many people will report you despite there being no rules against playing how you want.

Top Riven advice was given by the Kona Kona Vault of Information not long ago.

You should be using the third hit of Q->Auto->W-Auto->E away as your harass in lane. Don’t try to Q->Auto them over and over because it’s easy to dodge the occasional Q and you are just letting them pound you while you do it. Queue up your first two Qs either on minions or as a way to close space, then hit with the third for the CC, Auto for passive, W, then auto again, E-ing away afterwards. In doing this you can harass enemy heroes without taking random autos from them. With the shifting of a lot of her damage to Q, this is less overall damage than going for Q spam, but it’s much safer damage, which is important in lane.

I think I ran Armor Pen/Armor/MR per level/AD quints, but I never really min-maxed a page specifically for Riven.

tolore · 2012-02-14T04:17:32.000Z

Riven is absolutely brutal in top, played her a few times this weekend, I tore morde and pantheon in half, I fully expected both to be a huge problem(mords harass and pantheons passive are pretty scarey for her).

AYO · 2012-02-14T04:19:35.000Z

Nah I just run that stuff in standards, Dom, or co-op.

I still don’t like Ashe, she needs mana cost reworks to be a more effective harasser. Ulti is nice, but I hope to god you are good with it or your entire team will start the drama and report talk lol.

BIG_BAD_MOG · 2012-02-14T04:25:59.000Z

They say they do. “Reworks” do happen…not always for the best.

The point is to the have fun, just don’t go into a ranked game and play with those builds. Too many people will report you despite there being no rules against playing how you want.

Top Riven advice was given by the Kona Kona Vault of Information not long ago.

I did read that, it’s just that during team fights it’s about scoring that kill and/or CC. In Riven’s case the third Q is a CC, but W does not let her autoattack immediately. So do I try to land that knockback asap to let my teammates get some time to throw their stuff in, yet risk toning down my damage since I won’t have Qs ready after W? Or do I just let my teammates do the CC and such and stick with pure damage?

donu7 · 2012-02-14T05:02:32.000Z

Here’s the thing I have gathered. Sure AP Yi is a new playstyle, but I still fail to see what makes it better than AD Yi. Yes AD Yi is squishy**…but so are a lot of carries.** I find that the payoff for having a team synergized with AD Yi much stronger than AP Yi. Ever since doing a game with Morgana, Kayle, Zilean, Yi, and someone else, Yi was simply a wrecking machine. Granted you could do the same with other AD carries like Tryn, Vayne, Graves, and whatnot to get a better combo, but who are you going to put with AP Yi to make him shine? He has the sustain with leveling up that W, but it’s not going to make people focus all their attention on him. Your Q will do massive damage**…but then why don’t you go with an AP carry for better burst+CC like Veigar, Brand, Cassiopeia, so on so forth.**

That’s what I don’t understand. The argument is about Yi. The other champions are other champions and isn’t really what the argument is and I think that takes away from the argument. I don’t mean to single you out, I’ve just seen that argument brought out in too many conversations about one specific character.

Anyways, how would deathcap lower the damage output compared to void staff? I believe deathcap gives quite a bit more AP to counteract the void staff’s magic pen unless you’re going up against straight tanks. Would it be feasible to get a number/chart of, at what point would the void staff do more damage than the deathcap? Because looking at it, with the deathcap you’re going to be around 330 or 351 AP depending on how the 30% AP boost is applied from the deathcap. That’s something of a ~60 AP boost from the Cap’s unique. So, the enemy in question will have to have around… 140 MR? Those are just the numbers that I was able to pull up, if those are wrong please correct me.

Pacifist · 2012-02-14T05:07:16.000Z

I did read that, it’s just that during team fights it’s about scoring that kill and/or CC. In Riven’s case the third Q is a CC, but W does not let her autoattack immediately. So do I try to land that knockback asap to let my teammates get some time to throw their stuff in, yet risk toning down my damage since I won’t have Qs ready after W? Or do I just let my teammates do the CC and such and stick with pure damage?

Well, I was linking it for the lane phase. In team fights…most of the time, you’ll just have to make the judgment call. Do you have the time to get autos in the maximize damage? Or do you need to pump it out fast and try to CC lock them to get momentum? In most cases, it’s the latter. Making that call will come easier with experience.

tolore · 2012-02-14T05:15:07.000Z

I guess lowering damage may have been a little off, but as far as gold efficiency I’m willing to bet void staff wins at low levels of AP but i’ll take a look at it when I get home(don’t have time for anything more than short posts at work).

edit: also of note the mpen will probably help gunblade and deathfire damage and the extra AP will likely not.