Labwork: Tests, results, discoveries

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1401

Yeah… I don’t have a setup that covers both normal and DWU, though I did look for new dive-kick setups when Ultra first dropped. I honestly gave up on it. There were too many variations between all the different characters; for exampe after sweep, some required immediate Flip dive-kicks, while others required a brief pause before the Flip. It all, together with the fact that there now were two more timings, just put me off from the entire ordeal. Now I just either aim to stuff reversals, or use a jumping HK safe-jump after sweep that works on the likes of Blanka and Decapre. If they use DWU, then it turns into a meaty-or-block scenario, which is perhaps an opportunity missed, I guess.

I’ve just used MK Tatsu for anti-air, but the stun definitely makes it worth it. Is this all the characters it works on (and it works consistenly without odd situation-specifics?)?

I went and did a visual comparison between them.

http://i.imgur.com/LsPm70tl.png

It shows the distance you both end up at after each move, and also a quick-rise from the opponent in both cases and how much time Gouken had in the meantime.

I agree the Tatsu should only be used in the corner if it’s going to kill, as at any other time I too either use a reset or a knock-down.

But mid-screen, I’d say the Tatsu has better positioning, better damage, and better duration in the sense that it allows you to take a time-out while the HK Tatsu does its thing.

If we need to mount a comeback or just stay on offense, then I agree that Palm is better, but provided they actually quick-rise. It allows a dash in to HK Flip Throw, which as somebody here pointed out earlier, will recover in time to anti-air if the opponent jumps straight upwards in the attempt to land with a combo. If they jump in any direction and attack, I think Parry will easily parry it provided it’s not a 2-hitter, and I think we even can actually punish them as they land, provided they’re within reach as some characters jump farther than others.

On that note, I think it looks like Palm (quick-rised) to HK Flip guarantees (I could be wrong) Throw/ anti-air, or Parry & punish. Additionally, one can just try to bait with MK/ LK Flip if they’re just looking to counter your approach.

1402

I don’t remember who it all works on except for the ones listed, I don’t see the point since Cl.HP -> HK Tatsu should be used on everyone it works on. I was just trying to find optimal combos for who it whiffs on and I came up with those two but even then it’s probably easier to stick to these to:

Cr.MP->HK Tatsu - Honda, Makoto, Deejay, Guy, Guile, Vega, Fei Long

Cl.HP -> HK Tatsu - everyone else (Rose and Blanka have strange timings but it will work on them)

These next two have their uses but with four punishes it starts to get difficult to remember what’s optimal for who where as the above two combos it’s a little easier.

Cr. HP -> HK Tatsu - This will work for Vega with a weird timing

Cl.P>MK Tatsu - Makoto, Deejay, Guile, Vega, Rose

1403

The extra stun damage is desirable. Sometimes a dizzy pops out from out of nowhere, especially if counter-hits occured and went unnoticed.

1404

“I pray everything that has happened during SF4 doesn’t carry over to SF5 if they add Gouken.”

I can’t help but feel like playing Gouken would be a good way to get ready for V. He would fit right in. I mean:

Light link combos barely get him anything and until recently, he got nothing but space.

Can barely crouch tech.

Insane damage.

I feel like, with a few tweaks, he’d fit in better there than he did in IV. Hell his v trigger could just be boss mode from this game on a timer.

1405

Yep I agree, Gouken already fits fine. I would want them to change a few of his normals around so he has real poke conversions (looks important in this game, more than 4) but otherwise he already works pretty well.

I do think they need to be willing to re-evaluate certain key parts of the design. But the overall thing that he is, is okay.

Personally I think:

V-Skill: Fukoshin (ground stomp from Omega)
V-Reversal: Kongoshin
V-Trigger: Shin Gouken. On activation, whatever move he cancelled is dash cancellable. For the duration, all specials, V-skill, and v-reversal are dash-cancellable and increase JP by 1. So Palm->dash cancel->tatsu. Or st.MP x Fukoshin dash cancel continue combo. Or Kongokshin dash cancel Critical Art

Also:

Light tatsu acts as Gouken’s reversal
Light Palm stops fireballs like Yang/Yun Palm
Has 3s Ryu Donkey Kick

I think Gouken is a shoe-in for post-release DLC. Maybe a dual release with Akuma.

1406

I was referring to all the fighting and a shit here. Game play wise I only think Gouken needed minor tweaks to be top tier.

-less push back on st mp and cr fp
-light attacks +4 on hit
-gf grab less recovery after the grab. Like omega mode but with hard knock down
-cr mp needs 1 or 2 additional frames of hit stun
-add a little more forward movement on lp Palm. A little less than omega mode

Keep all else the same, he’s top tier for how I play.

1407

This forum is so deep. More joke videos than useful ones.

If I had a prayer for USF4 to SFV, it’s that the two clowns in this forum don’t play the same character as me so I don’t have to hear their frat boy circle jerk shit. So long as I don’t play the same character I won’t have to listen to the fapping sounds of them circle jerking since they never step outside the character forum cause they know they will get laughed right back here.

Oh secret tech secret tech! Unf Unf Unf, best secret tech evah! Unf Unf Unf.

Everyone tried to blame me for starting shit with these two asshats and even when I disappear the same shit clutters this forum. Clearly I was the issue.

Feel free to post joke videos and talk shit like you were a real roughneck bruh. I won’t be reading! (maybe in 5 months for a laugh).

1408

And this will be sitting here in 5 months…

Kill yourself…& Have more guts than to try and throw rocks and then hide your hand… “I won’t be reading” <<<<<<.

Oh almost forgot… Hold this bitch… Unf Unf Unf…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3BKTYa0jEM

1409

Now how about actual game discussion…

1410

You could’ve just posted the video, instead of telling crap to him in the same message.

I’m not going to take away credit from your setup, because it is brilliant to safe-jump the DWU and take advantage of the dive-kick angle and the fact that reversals normally charge the character forward and past Gouken, but you can’t sweep what Reipin’s saying under a rug.

1411

What did he actually say???

-he hopes/pray we don’t use the same character
-still talk about PAST shit that he contributed to and I didn’t even post
-Still jealous bc I’m cool with Takin and he doesn’t like him

And BOTH you and I was going back and forth … and I still maintain that I didnt come for you first NOR him…

What BS have I ever posted; all I’ve ever done is try to expose you to things like in the video I just posted. I KNEW all of this pre-Ultra and had these videos day 1 of Ultra…

And when i tried/wanted to show people; all certain people did was bitch about things that didn’t have to do with me or linking me to what somebody else posted…

AND all I keep saying is challenge me about the game and you all WON’T or CAN’T…

But it’s MY fault… and i should let you all come at me however??? Someone can argue that I shouldn’t fire back at people and I can argue that they shouldnt fire first…

So if you want to swing just know I’m swinging back… I have never came at you or puss boy Reipin … you piss in the wind and it comes back to hit you too…

I’ve always sad talk to me about the game, stop blaming me for what Takin does or your issues with HIM, and don’t try flame wars bc I WILL respond… my keyboard works too…

But again… all everybody do is cry about their problems with me when I dont mention them or whatever… JUST LET THE SHIT GO.

And FUCK ANYBODY who feels I should take anyboodys SHIT and not throw my own.

So either challenge me about what I post about the game or shut the fuck up. Bc I’m not going of my way to mention any of you all just to talk shit.

There’s nothing under the rug but your own dirt…

And to make matters worse the last time Reipin tried shit with me he admitted he didn’t even PLAY ULTRA… but hes debating what I’m saying about the game??? FOH

I haven’t even been posting much at all and when I do I run into the same old shit… please

If you are so tired of issues and fighting then stop contributing to it.

1412

I’m not looking for a long-ass argument.

Reipin is totally right in that you’ve been stroking your own cock right in front of us for years.

I’ve acknowledged that your setups look great and are a great contribution to this forum, but let’s be honest all the way and not just selectively. As for Takin, he’s always seemed mellow to me, so I don’t know the story there…

1413

I got a big cock what can I say… I Def don’t want you guys touching it.

The problem is you guys try to talk shit to me and get owned bc you can’t challenge what I say about the game…

So you get personal… LMAO

Fuck Reipin ando whoever else that supports him…

GET OVER IT

Either discuss the game or keep getting flamed for crying about how you dont like x and y …

If you want peace then you muthfuckas should try keeping it too.

1414

Neither of us are morons who just try to talk shit to a fellow member - that is not the problem; the problem was that you used to parade across the forum and chant about your knockdown-setups, and like any other thing it will grow old after a while, and it carried on for several years, and that is what Reipin and myself complained about.

I had a long argument with you so I’ve vented out, but clearly Reipin hasn’t.

If you wanted a good atmosphere between all of us fellow members here, then you could’ve responded to him differently.

I’m humble, because Risemix showed a setup that works on normal and DWU on Cammy, and Aquamarinedog showed me that EX Tatsu juggles all characters, and you showed us some setups that work on normal and DWU on multiple characters. For all you know, Reipin can show us something in the footsie-game, or anything else that can strenghten the other areas of our game.

1415

Well let him show it instead of worrying about what the hell I post.

It’s a forum get the fuck over it.

And please don’t let me get started on the mass of shit you’ve been wrong about and Reipin admitted he didn’t even play the game. I’d love to see him post something to help… But all he does is cry and re-hash shit that other people post…

Find me ONE Post that I’ve went after either your or Reipin first just to start shit… I will wait…

But I’m wrong…:.: lol

1416

My goal is to only help… If brining up old shit is what you all prefer instead of learning what I’m trying show you, then by all means go ahead.

I’m very satisfied with being able to find common ground with all the other top Gouken…

And I’m probably the only one who even bothers to post here…

1417

Be my guest.

I already told you - you’ve been stroking your pee-pee right in front of us for years, and that’s what the problem is.

This goes both ways. Go right ahead.

I really like your setups, and I really appreciate the video, but we were trying to get past being jerks to each other…

1418

I’ve actually shown you the same set up before and you dismissed it, so I pulled it.

I’m always cool… I’m just not taking anybody’s shit.

Don’t start none won’t be none and I’m fine.

im not apologizing for knowing what I’m talking about… Have a been an asshole at times… Yes. Have people been assholes to me at times… Yes.

I call it even, well not really because all the stuff I was saying is true :). Strokes cock lol.

But i think we can all be better with getting along and actually LISTENING to each other, before passing judgement. I’m not the enemy here.

But either way it’s all good…

1419

I saw earlier in this thread an option select for air tatsus using mp+mk getting eaither a focus atrack or nothing at all if you mistime the tatsu. I’ve been playing around with lp+lk and found it works the same way getting a throw or nothing if an air tatsu doesn’t come out. Same with hp+hk, taunt or nothing, probably been discussed here but just confirming again if anyone is wondering. Also, are there air tatsu set ups? I’m looking in to some delayed wake up shit, with all of the cross up opportunities/chip damage there has got to be some neat stuff.

1420

@Aquamandog See the vid that I posted above (now below) It works mid screen vs normal and delayed wake up after any hard knock down except GF slide and GF throw. I did a variation after sweep, and forward throw with dive kick and jumping mk. Didn’t do the entire cast, but the application is near the same across the board. I was planning on recording going through all the options with all the characters but i haven’t felt motivated to do it. It’s only a handful of characters that you have to alter differently once you understand the nuances, and it’s pretty easy once you practice and understand what’s going on.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3BKTYa0jEM

I’ve seen that Tatsu that you’re talking about, I just don’t remember where I saw it. Gakushimota or however you spell it, he has a good page too and something could be there. @takinflight is the air Tatsu guy lmao, he might know.