Did you factor in extra hit stun from counter hit?
yes, 14fr recovery + 3fr adv. + 3fr ch = 20fr
max start up mp rush = 21fr
seemingly its not the max start up and becomes active earlier…
Gouken’s palm has 2 activation points.
This why when we do palm further out we take advantage of the invincibility frames vs. executing it close up.
I’m pretty sure you’re getting the early activation frame vs. the max one (after invincibility has passed).
its not the point blank activation, gouken travels quite a bit… maybe its variable.
nevertheless i think the set up is interesting if you alredy poke a lot with far.lk. during far.lk you can check the spacing for safe, max range counter hit fishing…
Found a really interesting corner combo/easy reset that does over 1000 stun and a lot of damage:
j.HP (or nj.HP), s.HP x EX Palm, EX Gohadoken, EX Gohadoken, EX Gohadoken, c.HP xx Light Demon Flip Grab
ALmost certainly character specific, will test more later.
i believe multiple ex hado only work on xl hurtboxes…
I’m pretty sure the traveling palms activate within a certain proximity to a character, within a certain range of frames. Like, point blank mp palm will activate the hitting portion of the move sooner than a full range mp palm…if that makes sense. So, at the range you’re talking about, you may be activating the hit at the beginning of it’s frame range. Perhaps mp/hp palm have minimum and maximum startup…?
Nice. What inspired you to go immediately to ex palm without st or cr hp? Also, three ex fireballs is character specific, I imagine.
Exactly.
MP has activation points on 16 and 21 and HP has them on 17 and 27. Each activation point is active for 4 frames.
So MP is active on 16, 17, 18, 19 and 21, 22, 23, 24. HP is active on 17, 18, 19, 20 and 27, 28, 29, 30.
Likely true, I only tested it on one or two characters before I had to run out the door! I happened to have Gouken as my dummy when I “discovered” this.
There is a s.HP there. Typo, sorry!
So, this may be of no consequence to anyone or maybe even something only I didn’t realize, but tatsu FADC ultra can be made quite a bit easier with this trick and a little retraining.
When you do your normal cancel into tatsu, end the stick in the forward motion. You do d,db,b,f + kick button > FADC. It has to be smooth and fast. This will allow the FADC to cancel in 1 click rather than two, or at least it seems that way to me. It seems to give you a few extra frames to do your ultra motion. It’s something I just tried out yesterday so I have to get my muscle memory to accept that I don’t have to mash dash so much LOL.
Edit: Credit to @iamthatiam. Eat a dick, IAM LOL. I remember him saying this a long time ago but I have “mashy” tendencies so it took until now to remember and finally start trying it this way. With the cr.lp combo being available it’s worth trying.
During footsies OS. Cr.lp + qcb lk and hk. Will give you Cr lk to do a distance check if LP whiffs, will give you Cr.lp xx ex tatsu on hit OR block. Also, Crlp + Cr lk and hk will give you a two hit blockstring or sweep if the Cr.lp whiffs. The timing is important. Too fast and it doesn’t work, too slow and it doesn’t work. You can sub the 3k button for the same results.
Test results and stun combo/reset information is in this post.
First I wanted to know how many times you could EX Gohadoken each character in the corner. This is important because generally more EX Gohadokens is better if you’re going for a one-combo and reset stun situation.
Every single character can be juggled into at least one additional hit of EX Gohadoken. When possible, an EX Gohadoken is always better in terms of damage than a standard Gohadoken, dealing 60 damage and 80 stun per fireball (so if 2 hits, 120/160) as opposed to the standard 55/50 from a regular Gohadoken. When going for stun, meter is normally worth it!
That information is here in spoiler tags.
1.5 - 16 characters
[details=Spoiler]Akuma
Chun-Li
Cody
Dan
Dhalsim
Evil Ryu
Guy
Guile
Ken
M. Bison (Dictator)
Oni
Rolento
Rose
Ryu
Yang
Yun
[/details]
2 - 20 characters
[details=Spoiler]Abel
Adon
Blanka
Cammy
C. Viper
Decapre
Dudley
Elena
El Fuerte
Fei Long
Gen
Hakan
Ibuki
Juri
Makoto
Sagat
Sakura
T. Hawk
Vega (Claw)
Zangief
[/details]
2.5 - 1 character
[details=Spoiler]E. Honda
[/details]
3 - 6 characters
[details=Spoiler]Dee Jay
Gouken
Hugo
Poison
Rufus
Seth
[/details]
Infinite (Effectively 3, and yeah you read that correctly) -
[details=Spoiler]Balrog (Boxer)
[/details]
There is a corner combo that deals 900 stun without a counter-hit in the corner with only one EX Gohadoken. That means that any characters with 900 stun or less can be instantly stunned with this combo, for 2 meter. It is:
Adding more EX Gohadokens increases stun but the returns diminsh quickly. Note that you must use M.Palm here because H.Palm has too much start-up time. This combo is corner only, even if you FADC. Because it comes up just short of 950 stun, it’s a pretty good one if you’ve already accumulated some stun. It works on characters who can be hit with 2 or more EX Gohadokens in the corner.
I did not find a way to get over 948 stun with a single combo, without a counter-hit nj.HP. If you need more stun than that, you’ll need to use a reset instead. There is a reset combo that deals over 950 stun without Ultra 2:
This one is pretty good if you have tacked on some stun already as well.
The last reset uses 3 EX Gohadokens and only works on 7 characters: Boxer, Dee Jay, Gouken, Hugo, Poison, Rufus, and Seth. It is most useful against Dee Jay, Gouken, Hugo, and Boxer, as Seth, Poison and Rufus have 950 stun or less. You can modify this reset to include one less EX Gohadokens to stun any other character that can be hit by 2 or more.
What you may have noticed is that characters with 950+ stun that are only hit 1.5x by EX Gohadoken do not have a corner combo or reset that stuns them from 0, unfortunately. Enjoy!
for the first combo, try juggle lp senku - U2 charged by one level (!); should bring in a bit more stun if you hit the lp senku high enough for a higher juggle…
the problem with these resets in df grab is that the close hp telegraphs the “set up”. if the opp knows it (pretty much everyone know these since vanilla!) a simple neutral or backjump will bring the hurt for gouken.
and how likely is it to simply score a front/neutral jump in on a cornered opp? if i cornered my opp i’d like to maintain this favorable position to force errors and not risk it by a jump in.
nice work putting this together, but some of your assumptions are more combo vid material, but not serious match… just my 2 unworthy cents…
I get a lot of nj.HPs in the corner against opponents who try to grab me out of my light kick corner tricks. You know, the one where you do dj.lk and then s.mp to hit-confirm into a full corner combo.
If I have a read that the guy might try to grab me after, i’ll jump and nail him with a nj.HP. It’s especially good against grapplers, Karakusa-happy Makotos, characters with long grab animations, characters with parries (like Dudley), that sort of thing. That’s where I got the idea to try this out in the first place.
I’m not saying it’s always applicable, you’re absolutely right about that. But when you have the meter and get the HP it is extremely powerful and good to know, and I had fun putting it together anyway.
no offense, really appreciate that you contribute…
but neutral jumps usually do not punish grabs as the opp should be able to block in time (except command grabs) and very good players may even srk you… same like these neutral jumps on wake up to escape grabs… did you test if after a blocked close mp, the block advantage of 4fr is enough so that a neutral jump will punish grab whiffs?
if you know he will grab, why not going for a frame trap? or doing just one step back to make the throw whiff and throw him in his recovery? works quite good particulary after the push back of one jump in + close.mp…
i just believe starting from a punish situation may be more likely to work out potential dizzy sequences…
You aren’t wrong necessarily, it has worked well for me in the past though… not every time, of course. I do like to frame trap in that situation sometimes. And I like your suggestion, whiff punishing the grab.
But there are legitimately situations where this works nicely. Characters with taller hitboxes get hit before they can recover (for example, Hakan will often get hit if you do an earlier njHP, or Sagat). Even with Gouken, I get hit unless I tried to tech ASAP.
I can’t deny that it’s a bit of a gimmick, and I don’t. So you don’t need to worry about offending me, I know what I posted. 
U2 no charge - f.dash - EXTATSU
after hitting and whiffing it in some matches now, I believe it does not reliably work if you hit the U2 more than 1/2 or 2/3 screen away or so. but for closer punishes it seems viable.
Not to piss on your parade at all… good find in fact…
but are you really that often hitting a grounded denjin from half screen or less? The vast majority of my grounded denjin hits are from fullscreen fireball wars where they don’t realize their mistake.
One viable way to land a grounded Denjin is to do it as someone else is fireballing you up close.
So that would constitute I guess.