So you’re saying it’s not +4 when done at this range? I completely understand what you’re saying now btw. This shit is hard to explain in words.
better be like just come to endless sometimes. …i used to say
Dude, seriously? “but half of that post had nothing to do with what I said. Nowhere did I say that if something says +4 on hit, somehow some way it can be +3 or less by spacing or meaty’s.”
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
st.hp is +4 on hit and right above you say…
“f.st.hp has bad recovery. If you hit someone almost point blank at the very beginning of the range where f.st.hp will activate, you cant link ANYTHING because you haven’t recovered in time to perform another move and actually have it combo.”
WHICH WOULD HAVE TO MEAN IT IS NO LONGER +4 ON HIT. IT WOULD HAVE TO BE WORSE THAN +4. IN FACT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE +2 or WORSE. ALL BECAUSE RECOVERY IS “WORSE” ACCORDING TO YOU.
I did go into training, and at the earliest point that fat st hp activates you can completely link super. In fact you can do close st hp as well (not cancel, I mean it can cancel but it also links).
I never disagreed with the part about hitting with the tip pushing them too far away for super to link. I completely agreed with you and even gave another example (safe jumping 3 frame dps) of using spacing to prevent hit boxes from interacting.
My original post had everything to do with your responses.
He is wrong. If you don’t believe me, go into training and try it or go into the newbie saikyo dojo and ask how frame data works. Far standing HP is +4 on hit when close, there is no added “recovery” that makes it so super can’t link.
He is correct that spacing can alter whether or not a hit box and hurtbox interact, but spacing in that sense applies to the hurtbox being out of reach of the hitbox, the hitbox needing to travel to interact with the hurtbox, thereby making a move that shouldn’t be safe according to frame data, now safe.
According to frame data you cannot safe jump a 3 frame uppercut because of your 4 recovery frames when landing. This video shows it is possible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkiJPoYSbDs
It’s a good example of why frame data is not “everything”
Also, even the tip of far standing HP is at least +4, it’s just that the super afterwards does not have the range to take advantage of the +4.
Seriously, the easiest way to envision this is think of the dhalsim matchup.
If you are halfscreen or more away, and he does far st.hp, and you block it, frame data says he is -3 on block (AND HE IS) but Gouken can’t do shit about it cause you are too far away to interact with his hurtbox. Same principle.
Far St HP has a TON of push back, so even though its +4 on hit, if the spacing pushes them back far enough where your hit box animation wouldn’t be in that space by the 4th frame, then super would miss.
The enigma may lie with the 5 active frames on the attack. Active frames should contribute for push back as well.
Considering that, it could be quite possible that you could push them too far out of range if you hit with the ealier frames of far st. hp… or just by being too close.
If active frames contribute to push back, then… it’s not too far fetched that Super may not be in the range by the 4th frame.
If this holds true… then you’d get… (The sweet spot frames could be different) but if what Dek09 is saying is correct then this is what you’d have…
Too Close- hits with 1st active frame further pushback = super is blocked
Sweet Spot- hits on 3-4 active frames less push back = super
Too Far - hits on 5th active frames even less push back = out of range super whiffs or get’s blocked
Even though you have the same + frames… the push back and spacing has to be factored in… also, we need to keep in mind Goukens animation when he does super. Where is his hit box at the 4th frame? This video is actually a good illustration of this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkiJPoYSbDs
Also let’s make sure we are using HP version since it goes the furthest.
i know it pretty well too…i used to try to chase that pushback with slide kara but the distance i made up, i lost due to hitstun and pushback i suppose.
i feel its tight…dek thinks there is ample time…but i think dek happened upon “the sweetspot”…i was hunting for it… lol either way its rough to land in my oppinion…but dek has great execution so. …lol im lost…
yo reipin what was your take on a not too recent vid bout, divekick>lp>lp>palm vs fuerte.
^ Remember when he has EX, It’s a way that El F. can absorb 2 hits, and he can armor cancel to U2. So if you use dive kick > lp … he can absorb both hits by this EX Run Thingy that he does.
Ex Run is pretty fast going backwards, so EX tatsu often whiffs.
However, there is a mid screen un-blockable set up of sweep that avoids it. And if he does any than EX Run you get a punish.
He his EX dp kick takes him to the other side of the screen. but that’s good for Gouken b/c he’s not on top of you and he just burnt EX Meter. You can also punish it with U2.
Using that and meaty lp palm when he wakes up kills his wake up EX run tactics.
You can always empty in on him if he has U2 and jump or EX Flip to try and call his bluff too.
Here’s a vid for it… It also shows you some of the ways he could get out, but you could OS some them, but I was being lazy so I didn’t do it… so some folk may have some home work…
You should be able to safe jump his super but in the video the recording dummy wasn’t blocking… but it’s all there
labwork , theres a straight all meter expalm fadc ex iat, a cl.mp to ex flip, when mp whiffs whiffed far mp or close mp goes to ex iat, then no os just straight mp to ex iat from close range…
^ Good stuff…
I think on a couple you can save your meter though…
IIRC you can land EX Palm and do IAT with mk or hk tatsu and it should hit and you can save 3 bars.
that day i couldnt lol! it comes out smooth, your right on saving meter…
edit: recorded a meter saving one for show
that shit was cramping my hand for a day…
ex tatsu fadc ex iat thats a sore wrist right there boy…
wake ex iat or when enough space just iat, for spacing and ive been doing it for fun and iat on wake to kill or escape. working great vs throws or gtfoutta dodge…chips some and beats other oddly and weird stuff maybe like srks with certain reaction timing.
cant use too often, can get blown up after one too many and obv wont beat alot of stuff. fun for me tho :-)been incorp alot into my game.
What are your IAT inputs?
tatsu, up, kick, to move forward,
or tatsu, up+back, kick, to move backwards.
the inputs aren’t the problem, but the timing is. try to calculate that gouken will actually tatsu in the height you’re aiming for, and time the kick button according to that.
gouken has to have already jumped, before you press kick. that’s the tricky part. but, you can’t let too much time pass either, as that will result in losing the directional inputs for the tatsu, and leave you with just jumping, and a kick coming out.
I do this one fairly often against sagat if I corner myself with flip throw. works like a charm.
ive done that too with ex palm reset…and yes thats a great application. thats dope
who was it we couldnt hit with full animation after ex palm fadc?
i been using negative edge and letting go all 3 kicks…one of em gotta hit right?
Yeah…the problem with this has always been though that if the opponent crouches on block (which Im learning many do for some reason) you go sailing off in to the sky. The risk reward is just not good enough. Its awesome man for real, I soooo wish it is something thats really viable but, man, if they crouch then thats a level 3 punish.
If they are crouching a lot you should be blowing them up really hard. Thats pretty rewarding.
On another note I am doing something incredibly wrong here I guess, I long gave up on trying anything with this because Tatsu wouldn’t activate unless I hit them on THawk top height or something. Checking hit spark on block I know I am hitting it higher(and with the cancellable hit, heck often it’s both hits cause it ignores the cancel vs tall characters). Is there something I am missing about the height restriction or is the PC version wonky? I would sooner assume me, but I can’t figure out where it is off.