Labwork: Tests, results, discoveries

Speaking of the st.MP OS, will EX Demon Flip autocorrect under it? (could be a free BnB combo if so)

Uh, what? If you know about that OS then that should be all you need.

Dude, the Akuma thread, please :slight_smile:

Oh I meant to post there in the first place, sorry. Too many windows open.

Semi useful… This is all done with a single dash after forward throw and then mk demon flip.

I didn’t test this on a lot of the cast (watch in 1080P and full screen, I used my sitty ipad2 to record it).

Basically on some of the cast (Ibuki and Honda for sure) you can demon flip hit confirm into a hard knockdown by adding a fireball.

Of slightly more interest…

Some people you can fake crossup in the corner with demon flip.

On a lot of the cast I know one corner works and another doesn’t, or it won’t work at all, but for some reason, with some people, this works in both corners. best part? They have to block it normal.

Again, watch in 1080P full screen and look at the inputs, I have to block as if Gouken was attacking from the front when he cross up demon flips me in the corner.

This works in both corners, and again, only got it to work on Honda and Ibuki. It probably works on more people but I just didn’t get time to test it. If nothing else, remember this for Ibuki, two combos and she is dead and this is a free one to any Ibuki who hasn’t seen it before. In fact, that fake cross up hits so deep I bet you could Ultra1 after it.

[media=youtube]Pn1Tq-QvIz4[/media]

When testing stuff like this you should record the results of several options. There’s a lot of work involved when it comes to testing like this. You also get to learn a lot more about characters and matchups that you generally wouldn’t have known otherwise.

Here’s a spreadsheet I used to find unblockables and ambiguous stuff with Blanka. Hit/block indicates whether or not the attack hits or gets blocked when the opponent performs the action in the column header, and front/back indicates where Blanka lands after landing the attack. Anything that has “hit” in both the front/back columns is unblockable.

Blanka’s unblockable on Gouken:

Thanks, remind me to kongo if I ever get roll thrown :wink:

On a side note, like I said, I didn’t have much time to test it out. I wouldn’t have even found it if I hadn’t randomly picked Honda at first. I don’t even experiment with croner flip stuff because of the usual whiff stuff that goes on (this completely whiffs on Sagat, Yun, and Seth) in addition to the corners doing different things.

I’m going to work on it though because there are a lot of times where I find myself forward throwing people into the corner and having one of these setups, even if it is character specific, can go a freaking long way with the damage Gouken can put out.

Good shit bro…

this man knows a good blanka too, I believed we played at SVGL vs my Gouken.

the corner faux crossup works on boxer as well :slight_smile: I did it just for the hell of it last night in a meetup not knowing if it would work or not. It did :smiley:

Heh doing some more testing and it is unblockable on honda.

[media=youtube]QcCKNxJVwPw[/media]

Will add some notes tomorrow

Some things to note: The corner bug is apparently gone in AE. I tested both corners with various things and they both behave the same, I know some of you will recall that some flips used to cross up in one corner but not the other. This is news to me, if you all knew the corner bug was gone then yay you for being ahead of the curve haha.

Secondly, this particular setup missed on a lot of the people, including Balrog who I said it worked on (B to block F to hit them). It missed B, F, N, and Jump. After I finished this recording on every single cast member I went back and experimented with Balrog, and I couldn’t hit him on wakeup for anything. After about 30 flips I went and played back some tests, Balrog gets out of all of this for free by being neutral. With Balrog you need to start the dive kick so it hits his head or so, if he holds back he blocks, forward he gets hit and jump is a hit. Neutral is a miss.

Yun and Yang do not share the same hitboxes FYI. These sets ups work differently on Yun and Yang.

I’d go through and list what I found but I think these kicks are all a matter of timing, it will whiff on some depending on when you initiate the actual kick of the dive kick and hit on others.

My best advice is to figure out who you hate playing the most and then go test various kick heights in the corner after a forward throw. Use MK flip.

I posted the video to show you though that this does work.

i have a bunch of setups for shit like this , we need to do a seesion together or something.

here try this: Useing Gouken vs Gouken dummy set to stand and auto-block. Heres a setup for at least the distance for you to try to get this shit started…

start with characters touching then use cr.lk about 3 times to push back to proper distance, then jump forward>rh, play with the timing on the hk in the air and vs dif characters you may want to space it differently , but right inside this distance you wil find an unblockable j.rh setup where depending when you press kick you can hit either side, if you hit early his heel hits them from behind as hes higher in his jump arc, and if you wait longer you ur closer to the ground but the j.hk hits them in front.

EDIT: also found j.rh stuffs ex ball as does j.mp both have way different timing, let me know if you want some more info.

Sorry if it dont make much sense but im too lazy to plug in all this shit to capture. :slight_smile:

I think if you have to vary your kick it is not unblockable. it just makes it so he is kind of guessing.

The thing with the setup in the video is that nothing is varied. You do it exactly like that and Honda has no out as far as I can tell. No blocking, jumping, standing, crouching, anything. Splash flies out, it stuffs EX ochio and I couldn’t even get a headbutt out.

I think for Gouken this holds a lot of potential for a number of reasons. On any character you can discover an unblockable on, that speaks for itself, but with the corner, and this in particular, the opponent is already put into a 50/50 because you can dash and then forward jump instead of flip for an actual crossup. Just know that you have two separate options, one that hits cross up and one that doesn’t, and both can be comboed from gives you a nice advantage in the corner, especially when that combo does 400 damage.

IMO this is way better then early j.lk fake crossup where you get thrown on landing if your opponent was mashing throw or a special.

Like I said, it’s there if people want to mess with the timing. It works on Yun if you do your dive kick a little earlier. Remember the correct way to block this is to hold back in the corner even though it looks like it is going to cross up (if it is not unblockable).

This is def something I am looking forward to both abusing and experimenting with. The problem with labwork is it takes like a god damn hour to go through each person!!

but even watching illitirit’s blanka setups w fierce which functions similarly to goukens j.rh he plays with the timing also.

idk maybe i missed something, anyhow j.rh and j.mp , all day shutting down ex up ball

Blanka is the dummy and is set to record, Gouken is being controlled. You’ll notice he shows you what happens when he is neutral, holds forward, and holds back.

The unblockable is just that, if you are holding forward, back, or neutral on your wakeup you are getting hit, there is no way to block it. Of course, Gouken can always just kongo, but yeah.

The blanka timing is always the same, where he lands is dependent upon what you do on your wakeup.

On Ibuki, Makoto Seth, and DJ.

thats why i alwauys use j.mk>sweep

I was bored and havent seen a list which shows from non-block crouching…
The few exceptions will be noted with reasons at the bottom.

HITTING CROUCHERS W/ TATSU and some new char specific bs!

This list isnt 100 percent complete but shows who can be hit by what when pretty much point blank with or without combos. Some characters are in multiple sections.

working on a finalized version

holy s**#, takin, this is awesome, thanks man.

Here’s my small contribution that everyone probably already knew:

  • blocked st. mp leaves you in perfect range for a kara throw. learn that shit.

  • ch cr, lk links into st. mp. good for footsie battles, always try to follow up cr. lk on hit with something on defense/footsies.

zang specific:

  • st. mk beats/outranges a shitload of zang’s normals. once he switches/gets in range for st. mp, cr. lk into what I said above.

  • if he jumps over you at that range you still recover fast enough to beat him with cr. mk or hp.

  • lk and ex tatsu work well against him on AA because of upper body invincibility and send him flying.

  • DF flip grab on wake up beats lariat, green hand, ex siberian suplex.

  • properly spaced vertical jump HP beats lariat clean. at that range you can only get sweeps after though, probably st. mp into shit on 2012.

Good stuff takin. We should do a spreadsheet to see who crossup cl.st.mp > c.lp or c.mp xx tatsu works on (which tatsu if any) and who has a way to avoid EX tatsu on our wakeup and who doesn’t.

EDIT: Also I found an unblockable on Seth using sweep flip in the corner, no way to properly time it though.