for the most part, but I can see how characters like cammy and fei would give them a lot of trouble because of the big changes.
Oh the honeymoon period with HDR 
You can tell from their reaction to guile’s RH FK and chun’s SBK.
I’d expect similar feedback from the japanese side. Some of them will be like DGV who won’t mind playing either version. Some might prefer to stick with ST.
But the biggest difference is that japanese has godlike internet so their online netplay of HDR/classic mode are way better than us, thus they would even use the classic mode to practice for big offline ST tourney.
However, what would be interesting to find out is how they take these new characters to next level. The japanese are known to dedicate their time to master a character and make use of the most effective strategy.
A japanese HDR tier will definitely blow our mind of what we perceived to be top tier now. Are gief and fei really babyzone? We’ll see
Yeah you can see around the 2 hour 30 minute mark when nakamura comes on and plays HDR Cammy… he wins 3-0 and makes it look easy 'cause they’re like “Cammy??? Who the hell is this Cammy???”
I’m willing to bet that the japanese will show us how broken ryus fake fireball is. they’ll probably end up banning him in japan like akuma.
i think japan is roughly the size of california or the west coast. usually when i play people within the same state, the connection is pretty good/excellent most of the time. this is even on psn. so yeah their internet is good and they play people within a pretty close region. also, i don’t recall the internet problems being the reason why some were boycotting hdr altogether, it was more of the changes etc
do we really have to wait for them to get into the game for usa to be motivated to play and find new things in the game? that’s like saying: “oh, the game isn’t really good, but oh wait - the japanese are playing now? ok now i’ll play it anyway since they are playing”
both usa and japan should push the limits of the game. let’s not wait for 1 or the other
- although it is good to finally see them playing it. this adds validity to the fact that hdr is playable, just as fun as the other sf incarnations, not broken as some claim, and the “easy” factor doesn’t seem to bother these top players at all.
after seeing this video, even more - i’m hoping japan evo definitely goes with HDR as a tournament game
it would be something different than the usual ST tourneys they have. then again, there is nothing wrong with watching them play St either. just something new would be a good change
Don’t convert this thread into a flame war but what kind of logic you follow to deduce that from what I said above?
I have already tried the game myself and I still prefer the original version. I watch sc2 and ssf4 matches too but I don’t play neither. I watch good HDR matches from top players like BTC vs Daigo but I don’t play the game myself.
For arcade hardcore players to play HDR/classic mode, the internet infrastructure must be almost lag free.
Air Ryu (SSF4 fame) in his blog commented that once he went back to canada he cannot accept playing XBL anymore (he used to live in japan) because of lag.
And gamerbee only level up so fast because he has godlike connection to japan so the japanese players are willing to play with him.
If there are lags in console ssf4, mago or daigo might not even bother to play on XBL. Nuki to this date still refuse to play on console btw.
HDR/classic mode is pretty much a online only game in japan (per ganelon’s observations in previous post)
Your comment is directed towards the wrong audience: every good US ST player I can think of, regardless of their attitude on HDR, has spent a lot more time with HDR than ARG and Otochun have in this clip. It’s not that ST fans didn’t give the game a chance, but rather they didn’t like or want the changes -and- there wasn’t enough competition to warrant keeping at it (like for SF4).
In fact, if CigarBoB didn’t notice Ken’s dp x2 juggle early on, HDR might have been broken from the get-go. Rather than focusing on others, the best place to start is with yourself. Did you attend SCR or NCR? Will you be at WCW? That’s the easiest way to do your part in keeping your preferred game going.
As for the video, it’s a nice intro to the game but much of the sentimentality here seems premature. It would be like JP Chaos Breaker fans being overjoyed that folks in the US are trying to start a Dark Awake scene rather than realizing that it’s mostly just a diversion for the players here.
Have you ever seen the special feature from a few years back where Tokido, Chibita, KSK, MOV, etc. tried Mortal Kombat Deception and took on (and lost to) Brice Mellen, the blind American player? If not, check it out and wonder what happened to “Japan’s lead” in a game they were having fun in…
Based on the players we talked to in Tokyo, I still don’t see any chance of HDR having staying power over there when tourney players still prefer ST and arcades. And perhaps you didn’t realize but many of the JP players they were playing against online have been playing online HDR for a over a year now (at least 1 of whom has said he still prefers ST). Even with all that time, nothing has changed in Japan’s SF2 tourney scene yet.
But I suppose this isn’t something that can be settled by words. Just check for yourself to see if HDR competitions continue along in Japan past this weekend or whether this feature was just a fun one-off event.
Anyway, I wouldn’t trust Japan to quickly discover new tricks and develop an accurate tier list. Just take a look at Japan’s early ST tiers with Dee Jay and Honda dominating to see that while the rough picture is there, they don’t get all the details in a short span of time any more than we do.
I agree it’ll still be interesting to see a chart from them since many JP players are starting from higher bases and may be able to take advantage of nuances better, esp. for ST’s weaker characters. But I doubt they’d discover anything too crazy since like I mentioned, quite a few good JP ST players have had HDR for awhile and nothing has popped up yet.
HOw do you say Babyzone in japanese?
^^^ my trusty google translator failed at this task
nah, i’m not trying to make this another st vs hdr thread. and please don’t take offense to what i posted. i was just looking at what you wrote:
"what would be interesting to find out is how they take these new characters to next level. The japanese are known to dedicate their time to master a character and make use of the most effective strategy.
A japanese HDR tier will definitely blow our mind of what we perceived to be top tier now."
the thing is, there are also alot of good/creative st/hdr players who dedicate alot of time into getting good here in america. people like dgv and snake eyez, i’d say they are as fun to watch and as creative with their characters as with any other top japanese players. imo, there’s also alot of US st players who could show us some good stuff if they only gave more effort into playing hdr (which technically they could, and it wouldn’t necessarily interfere with their ST game). it’s too bad they choose not to. but out of what’s left, new people will rise to the top. you can’t deny that there are some of us in usa who won’t play the game because they think we aren’t on the same page as japan. but slowly, japan is being introduced to HDR. will they like it? who knows where it will go, but it’s sad when here in america, people are already acting like HDR is ready to die off just as a spark of life might be happening in japan.
when you are practicing i can see where internet lag is an issue sure, but i mentioned how playing people within your own state etc can provide a decent/very good connection, there are many instances where a session is definitely playable and you can definitely still level up.
but when it comes to tournament time, for an offline tournament, some will not participate because the game chosen is HDR and not ST (or vice versa). i know people have a game preference but why is that the case? why block yourself from particpating? daigo i’m sure only plays arcade ST in japan, but he still enters HDR tourneys here anyway. judging from his record, the difference is minimal and the community benefits whenever we see him playing HDR here.
I don’t play SSF4 so I won’t enter, but it is still entertaining to watch. Same for HDR.
snk, you posted a lot about what we should be playing, but why ain’t you at NCR or any of those WC tourney?
This is not about ST vs HDR but the future of SF2. If the sf2 numbers are low (look at NEC, ST and HDR get pwned hard by other games), ST or HDR will disappear at US tourney one day.
You are not doing your part. Keep posting here won’t help much since those are just your opinion and many would disagree anyway.
BTW both ST and HDR players had mad fun @ NCR. We made many friends and it sucks that you’re not there so we can debate this shit offline.
The japanese are always the leaders at fighting game because they spent their time to discover all the nooks and cranny of the game. THAT is why they are entertaining to watch and people follow what they do / discover. It has nothing to do with their race but their attitude and their approach to the game.
I got into heated debate with folks on ggpo a lot about US players always go for easy wins with top tiers.
BTC’s blanka are entertaining so is damdai’s hawk. But the army of rogs are depressing (I don’t have issues fighting them) and we are always a few levels behind because everyone just cares about “playing to win”, the easy way.
In the end the japanese slaughter us most of the time when they visited. So much for “playing to win” the american attitude.
i’m curious but how did you arrive at this conclusion? from my understanding previously, sirlin consulted many top players (usa/international) on what they could do to improve the game visually, spark a new interest for the old series, and improve things balance wise. they went with udon graphics because udon has been popular with their comic/visual interpretation of the series. the interest was certainly there, but admittedly, the sf4 hype killed it along with other releases near that time. and with the balances and changes - surely, you cannot please everyone, but he took into account, the input from people like john choi, cole, graham wolfe, etc (and sirlin himself is a good player who understands the game well). there were things fixed here and there like sim able to punch guile clean under sonic boom etc - where you didn’t need to be a top player but you could obviously tell that a character was at a disadvantage. did he incorporate everything they wanted? obviously not, but i’m sure he didn’t dismiss anything off the bat.
HDR still had a high turnout at evo this past year. the attendance was solid at NCR/SCR, and even though some obviously good players refuse to play, the top matchups as each tourney came down to the last few - those were still impressive to watch. all hi level stuff.
ya - agreed, because of the arcade culture, i don’t see hdr surpassing st in japan either - or being anywhere near that level. but the argument before was that people didn’t like the changes of st to hdr here, and that japan didn’t play the game because of those changes or that it was watered down etc etc - basically some felt that the japanese wouldn’t like the game for the same reasons some top usa players don’t like the game.
when in fact, we can’t say that - and the only reason the game isn’t in wide release there is because capcom japan chooses not to release it on console or arcade. if something like sf:ae can be given a chance and released on console and arcade there - i don’t see it being a bad move that would bankrupt capcom if they released HDR and it failed there in arc japan
actually, i’m afraid you can’t really say i havent done ANYTHING as far as competitive gaming or tournaments etc. i’m not sure how old you are or how long you’ve been playing but believe it or not, i’ve actually gone to and competed in alot of tournaments in the past - i’m gonna go as far and say that i’ve probably entered and competed in more tournaments than you have and i’ve contributed a great amount to the scenes that i used to be involved in - whether organzing gatherings or just helping people level up (the 1st tournament i ever entered was arcade sf2:ce in the mid 90s and the last big tournament i entered was that one srk event held at ucla - when jason cole won and this is before they started calling it evolution).
my impact lately has been minimal obviously - work, life, getting old, etc, and i just play casually now, but when i do play i still try to be competitive, and whenever i see potential in others, i definitely try to persuade them to enter whatever tournament is around the corner, even donating for costs etc.
you can’t say that isn’t some form of contribution can you?
how bout this, i’d like to think that i contributed in some way to 1 of the players who got in top 8 at SCR for HDR and 2 of the top players who got into top 8 for tekken 6 at NCR by practicing vs them and being competitive over the years =)
oh ya, and i’ve done well vs some top players here and there in random games over the past years when i’ve competed. but not that many of them - and usually (if i won) it was through luck. but wins are wins 
btw, if anyone is in sf/bay area or passing by - time permitting, i can probably play a good amount of HDR on ps3 or ST on dreamcast - offline/online.
actually, this was getting a little off track. back to the video, after watching them play some - i’d really like to see people like noguchi try their hand with fei long. or any of the lesser played characters.
can anyone translate or give a rough summary of what they were saying about the game? especially near the end of the video?
It does not matter. If Tomo Ohira said today we should all switch back to HF but he said he’s not going to participate, nobody will take his words seriously.
You’re saying what we should play and what offline tourney should run, but you are not supporting any of those offline currently. Why should offline tourney organizer listen to you?
OTOH, I have a lot of respect for Thelo traveling from far away to SBR to run a side tourney for the game he loved.
Yes we should get back on track. But don’t expect people going to offline tourney to take your preaching seriously.
They are going to host a HD tourney soon. Let’s see if they are doing this offline or just like god’s garden. I think a gief or fei expert can dish out a lot of damage.
i wasn’t preaching to anyone really. i’m just like everyone else on the board posting whatever came to my mind. i’d like to think that i make some good points here and there. also, i wasn’t saying which games to run. obviously west coast will keep doing hdr, east coast st, evo hdr, etc. i was just ASKING what people’s reasoning for not entering X or Y tournament.
i’ll give an example, say i was still competitive in ST only. i would play the game and go to gatherings sure, but if an HDR gathering was around, i would still enter - i’d probably suggest playing classic mode or bring a ST setup if it was feasible. if a tournament was around i would still enter - i wouldn’t totally disregard it. i was just saying, what exactly was people’s motivation in not entering specific HDR tourneys? regardless of changes, obviously the skill set base is the same.
the recent video, it shows that the japanese are open to the game. they kept taking their turns and i didn’t see anyone pas or say “nah, i’m good - arcade only for me…”
btw, just so there’s no confusion, i do play and enjoy ST. these days the only setup i’d probably still play is on dreamcast though - since i still have a working joystick that i’m used to =)
i was kind of hoping that some good players for deejay, honda, and fei come out. honda and deejay since they have new ways to handle fireballs, and fei since he seems to have improved overall.
i’d like to see someone like noguchi playing vega since he was a big abuser of wall dive knockdowns, im wondering what his take on vega would be now.
Maybe something like :db::df::db::mk::df::mk:
I don’t use charge characters, so the only time I’ve dont these are messing around or combo videos. I could be wrong, and I think there is another way, but you may want to try this if no one backs me up or puts me right.
Dictator has a similar one, cr.strong into super. With Chun Li you can also swap out the cr.forward with cr.jab or something. You may also be able to execute it in such a way that the button press gives you the cr.forward, and the release gives you the super as you complete the motion. For Chun Li, it’s a pretty lethal skill. How many times will you be crouched next to someone, only for them to try and move and you tag them with a cr.forward? Now imagine stringing the super onto that as a hit confirm.
A friend tells me this:
i guess you could use akachan no zoon… that’s literally like “baby’s zone” or "zone of baby(ies)"
i’m not certain of the grammar for something so short and… slang
???
Nani?