Basically she spams swipes to build a little meter, it also has a good hitbox to control forward and hop space. It has a bit of startup so you have to throw it out preemptively. Her hop mixup is decent, hop B is a good crossup and she has a cmd grab to throw in. She gets good damage for 1 meter/1 drive but requires a little execution (tight DP link cancels). Her weakness is her normals are mediocre and she lacks reversals, no real DP. She has to really on st.A which will trade a lot or a prediction counter. She was considered high/top tier in arcade because her meter build was ridiculous just whiffing swipe and her anywhere juggle DM did 250, now both got nerfed so she’s a little lower. Execution can also factor into her tier placing because everyone seems to drop her DC combos, they are spacing specific 2f links IIRC.
Well I think I’ve gotten to a decent level now with the fundamentals of the game, what I keep forgetting I think are a lot of little things… like that I can get a followup with counterhit CD in the air, or that I have the option of wakeup EX cmd grab with Kyo, or alternate guard. I actually have a list of things like this in a .txt file on my computer to reference every time I play lol.
Also, do you guys think in the end it’s better to character specialize or to learn a diverse set of characters? I’ve always been the character specialist type, in SF I pretty much only play Bison and half-ass Guile, here I only play 3.5 characters (not counting my Ryo as a full character) because I just want to master and feel 100% comfortable with those. But I’m thinking maybe I’m gimping myself somehow by doing that.
There’s nothing wrong with either style. By having a diverse team that does different things you can often trip up your opponent, get them used to playing against one type of character, then when the next one comes in completely change game plan and they have to adapt all over. It’s kind of like when you lose a match in Street Fighter then change characters in hopes that your opponent won’t be on the ball immediately. The only problem is that you yourself has to get used to the switch just like your opponent does, so you might throw yourself off from getting used to one play style and then having to flip 180 in playstyles.
On the other hand, by picking a team that all specializes in the same thing, you can really wear down your opponent. Imagine like you’re fighting this ridiculous Guile, and you finally beat him with the last sliver of your health and you feel great, but then you have to do it again. It’s mentally taxing. The big flaw in that is that when you have a team that all specializes in the same thing, they probably have the same weaknesses too, which means you can get counter picked a lot harder.
Learning new characters also help you understand how they work or what they do. So if you happen to go against that character you didn’t know much about, you’ll at least know his options. Just like in any type of game.
TBH that’s how I learned a lot about some of my matchups.
There will be a kof13 tournament in Taiwan on 6/9.
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I’m curious as to what can be done against Kim. I know it sounds scrubbish to say a broad term, but if anybody could go in depth I’d greatly appreciate it. I played one of my friends and just to test it out, found out that he hit buttons almost the entire time. Team I was using Hwa or Robert on point/ Takuma/ Ex Iori.
Main thing I’m struggling with is his stand D i think, the up kicks. i know there’s a timing where I can do cr. a into rekka series with iori, but am having a hard time punishing it with my other characters. I haven’t tested to see if Robert’s Dp can be done between it or if the timing is strict. not sure what to do with hwa. and it feels like i’m gettin mauled playing with takuma.
It just seems like he’s a really good character with i think one of the top 3 best pressure in the game. Can’t crossup or get axed kick. does good damage, can build meter relatively fast. Input needed.
top 3 pressure? nah, top 5 maybe. As for his s.D, block it low, if you don’t he is + frame advantage the entire way out, if you block low, the first hit whiffs, so you can put a cr.B or cr. A with Iori into foward+A, then followups. Hwa can slide under it so yeah.
Just to add to that you should go into training and have Kim record doing far stand D. There’s a handful of frames that he has where the first kick will crush lows. The timing is weird since if you do it too early the D will crush certain normals and too late and you’ll get hit by the second hit. Either way it’s a hard move to stop and one of his best tools.
timing hwa slides on first hit on block seems like it would be very difficult to punish. I was curious if robert or takuma could do anything reversal wise. I’ve tried crouch b with takuma and it just whiffs entirely and crouch a. seems like it would come out too slow to do anything. Thanks for the input
on a unrelated note who do you think has the best pressure in the game? i’d say mr karate, claw iori, kim, kyo. in that order.
It has lower body invincibility all the way until he is turning around for the second kick iirc. Thats where its vulnerable.
Top pressure in the game is(no particular order) Mr. K, Beni, Ex Iori, EX Kyo, K’, and probably Yuri. Claw Iori would probably be behind them because of a couple reasons(I main Claw Iori so I know). CIori main blockstrings are very low in frame disadvantage to the point that you cannot punish him, not to mention most of them can put him at a range that grapplers can’t grab him. HOWEVER, it’s a guessing game. Iori has overpowering normals that he can do the said blockstrings and play daredevil with the opponent.
K’ can’t really be punished for his short hops unless you’re really good with timing. I always find the best way to beat him is to get in, if you dont, prepare to eat a handful of j.D’s and j.A’s and whatever else he’s gonna use including his j.Blowback. He can reset as he pleases during Ein trigger setups near the corner or just go for the damage if he has the meter to do so.
Beni has j.D and air throw and air raijinkens(which can be used to bait out dp’s if they can trade or beat j.D at specific timing), however in the corner, Beni’s j.D is the best move in the game. You have to spend a stock to get him off of you and it might whiff :\ The best way to beat Beni is to zone him, his rushdown is too good.
As for Kim, some characters and moves he cannot safe jump. A perfectly timed EX Orochinagi will beat all of his safejumps from his Bnb)cr. bx2 s.b ff+A, qcb+B). Also, Saiki DESTROYS Kim because of that. Kim is just too reliant on safejump pressure and if a character has fast startup invulnerable moves or supers, he can’t overpower you. I have been playing the Saiki/Kim matchup for a while now, and I think its easy 6-4 for Saiki because his dp super beats all of his safejumps. His fireball controls enough space that Kim can’t hop around fucking doing what he wants and if he jumps, he’ll get super’d.
I’ll say this though, I think there is too many characters with good rushdowns to make a top 5 or so. Almost every character has more than a decent rushdown.
Does anyone think Clark’s Step (toward +B&D) is useful at all? You could use it after a s.CD but it doesn’t leave you at block advantage. I just think it’s a really unsafe move to use.
It’s kinda like using K’ teleport after st.CD in 2002 (not in XIII, in XIII it’s suicide), doing that leaves you at like -5… But if your opponent is too scared to be mashing (which is pretty likely with Clark’s autoguard and instant throw), and he is not expecting the step, this ‘disadvantage’ can kinda sorta become a virtual advantage. Not something to be overused, but definitely not bad.
Use of meter and meter building… Which characters provide good meter as they fight without players taking unnecessary risks in wasting meter? As of now, I have Kula on my team as a battery (or the starter) I believe that she is good at meter building. She also has viable meterless combos too. But, what about King? She’s good at building meter, but she also needs meter to be… “super” - effective too. King also appears to be weak to rush down but her BnB’s are quite simple and damaging. Any suggestions on meter building? Betty might be a choice in hand as well. In anyone’s perspective, which characters are best for meter building?
Things like Claw Iori, Ash, or Shen come to mind when it involves operating with some meter available.
Discovered something fun the other day.
Beni’s Drill Kick connects nicely to an Ex Collider for Lancer-Sandou Geri combos. After that it’s pretty much on.
Um yeah, Drill Kick is + frame advantage on block and hit. Collider is 1 frame startup so its pretty easy to connect them. Found this out about 4 months ago lol.
Fuck that move. You have to be really aware of Clark doing his dash after CD(if you block it) to punish him, if you do it too late, you’ll get SAB’d or air thrown if you jump late. Also Clark’s s.CD makes him airborne, which I find stupid but more clark players should use that move. Especially in grappler/grappler matchups.
Answer to question 1: EX Iori/K’/Andy/Saiki/Billy/EX Kyo and thats all I can think of from the top of my head.
Answer to King: She has strong rushdown, it’s not weak, or crazy good, just strong. TBH, I think she is better playing lame and forcing jumps so she can tripguard or ex tornado kick them.
Answer to meter building: Almost every character builds a lot of meter(if you try to zone claw iori, I’ll just whiff my dp’s and take 2 hits block. I’ll have 3 meters much faster than you, and I will be able to punish anything you throw at me with EX moves/EX maiden masher BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA). If I had to say the best meter builders as a category, who builds meter the fastest, it would be (no particular order): Andy, Liz, Duo, Kyo(normal), Ralf, Takuma. I think they build meter the fastest but do say Liz and Andy just may be the best meter builders on the game. Liz is very safe building meter(Unless I EX Maiden Masher her BWAHAHAHAHAHAClaw Iori troll face) and Andy is pretty safe building meter from Zaneiken(elbow). With Andy, if I score a counter or normal air CD, I’ll do 3 Zaneiken elbows and recover so fast that the opponent can’t punish me. IIRC 3 elbows is about 3/4 stock, add the soft knockdown you got and thats 1 stock or clocse to 1 stock.
Hey, thanks for the insight. As of now, I’m really starting to realize how much of a beast Claw Iori really is!
Other good meter builders in mind could be Yuri should she whiff her DP or her Saiha. Most of the characters seem to have some sort of special move that builds meter, regardless of whether or not they whiff the attack. Athena has decent meterless combos as well… Andy’s pressure is safe for the most part and he builds meter quickly (though, I never really use him). K’ is certainly worthy mentioning, but to keep his corner combos going he might also need meter. Athena is pretty decent too. Billy Kane is a good option because he has some of the best normals in the game as well as good zoning and DP. I meant to state the King was weak against rush down rather having weak rush down. Might be a good idea if I stuck with someone like King or Yuri…
This intel is nice - and because of you, I’m even MORE curious about Claw Iori and Saiki. EX Kyo is one of my mains - my starting character.
What can I say, I’m slow.
K’ builds meter when he hits you. Sadly, when he is zoning, he builds meter very slowly from Ein Trigger(second shot builds the most but is very unsafe.). Blackout gives him no meter at all, and Minute Spike is unsafe from all distances, even if you do the followup slide. When he does hit you, thats when he gets started with safejumps EVERYWHERE and if he touches you, he can easily too 500 damage near the corner. Thats why I think he’s probably the best point character on the game. He does well against Both Kyo’s and can actually stop EX Kyo’s rekkas with s.B since its low and has GREAT range. EX Kyo cannot red kick over second shot, K can s.A his jumpins. Overall, he does crazy good against Kyo and may have a 6-4 advantage against him. But enough of that lol, meter… right. Like I said he builds meter when he hits you and bullies you.
Billy builds meter and zaps it well, kinda like normal Kyo. Definitely a good meter builder in the right hands.
As for King being weak to rushdown… not so sure about that lol. You have to bait her options then punish them while she is recovering. King’s s.C and D are great but if they whiff, she can get punished big time. EX Trap shot CAN be baited but startup may be around 4 frames so good luck trying to bait it without a legit safejump setup. Character’s like Kim/Kensou/Wacka Flocka Flames Iori/EX Kyo, who are reliant on safejump setups, force King to be weak on wakeup because she does not have anything to get them off of her unless she completely zones them out(which can be hard for Kim IF he does not have meter).
As for Claw Iori, his learning curve is pretty steep but not too hard. The hard thing about Claw, is learning matchups. There is always something different to do in every matchup and I think that is why I love playing him so much. For example, Against Leona:
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Use s.B a lot
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Do nuetral hops into taco to try and bait out her DP
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Leona’s ear ring < ANY Maiden Masher, his hitbox gets small and he goes right under it. She does not recover fast enough to block, which equals free safejump setup 100% of the time if she does ear ring throw.
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When close, use s.A(far/close, dont matter, +3 on block) and go for overhead if Leona is charging flashkick.
There is even more than that, but thats pretty much his Leona matchup. However, you cannot do this against every character. Even facing zoning characters are different, whether its what air normal to use if jumping over the projectiles, or just waiting until you got stock to go through them and punish.
Saiki is dumb good because of his projectile. IMO, he would not be as dominant without it because a lot of the cast have trouble jumping over it and when they do… they get super’d. Very solid character especially near the corner.
lol don’t sweat it dude, at least you are learning. You gonna find out even more why Benimaru is crazy good. I damn near cried when I looked at his frame data.
I’ve known for awhile he’s good, he’s just so versatile and hard hitting.