Ummm your theory was good until, you became bias. You dont like 01 because it was made by someone else. The gameplay really was not as bad as you make it out. It does follow your thoughts where the striker system was more refined, giving you the option of how you want to play.
In the end I guess it goes to each of our preference, with all things aside, to the OP you may want to try the emulators to try each one and see if you like the feel of it. If you do get the hang of it then download the ones you like and move from there.
“You dont like 01 because it was made by someone else. The gameplay really was not as bad as you make it out.”
You already proved your first statement wrong by quoting me. “2001 was developed by Eolith and was pretty garbage…”; I didn’t say “2001 was developed by Eolith, thus it was garbage.” The fact of the matter was that most of the talent of the development staff already left SNK at the time and Eolith was working with a series they weren’t familiar with. 2001 was a slipshod game. It’s fully of easy infinites, clunky controls, imbalanced cast, unfinished/rushed out characters, and is simply not a good game. Come on, look at Lin for goodness sake. He does the same rekka three times in a row. Then it’s pretty much May Lee with Xiangfei and Seth Strikers the game and fill in the last spot with whatever character. It’s evidenced all around that 2001 was a bad game usually up to debate whether or not this or 2003 is the worst KOF made. Could have 2001 been a better game if there was more development time? Perhaps, but simply what made KOF good up to 2000 was lost when most of the team left to join Arc System Works under the name of Team Neoblood. 2002 was a better step up the next year although there were a few balancing issues and some infinites. But, out 99, 00, and 01; which game is the most played for the Striker system? Korea plays 00 because it simply is a more solid game although they have to impose a 1 striker per combo rule.
My deduction comes from the result of what was made, the fact that 2001 is a bad game. It is a bad game because the game has 100% combos that are easy in terms of execution and there are no means around them (unlike MVC2 in both aspects), certain are characters are unfinished and are terrible, and the controls/feel of the game aren’t as refined as previous and future KOF titles. Aesthetically, the game has a sizable amount of music and art which was unpopular with the fanbase. Overall, it was a terribly receive KOF game as well as a game in general. Even those that still actively play KOF with the striker system still prefer 2000 over 2001, such as Korea. From there, let’s work are way back. What factors could have impacted the resulting game? Pretty much the group that was refining the game since 99 had went and left. A brand new company is handling the IP for the first time. What possibly could go wrong?
“Its all preference” is such a stupid crutch. 2001 was bad. It just was. There’s nothing wrong with liking crappy - mediocre games, mind you. I like SvC; a decent game at best. I think there’s quite a few misconceptions about that game…mostly because a lot of people like to say they played that game when they really didn’t.
That said, its not a good game and the last thing you’ll see me doing to trying to get more people to play it. Geese is too good against a lot of the cast, there’s some messed up hitboxes on a few of the characters, GCFS, some characters are missing serious options, the aesthetics are lacking and the command input (at least for console) is shoddy. The first step to truly enjoying some games is admitting that they suck. You don’t seem to get that though. Maybe you should actually try playing against someone that plays past scrub level and get back to us.
I totally agree for the most part KOF 2001 is a bad game. My personal opinion was they were trying to do too much with not really knowing what they are doing. That would be why KOF 2002 is so celebrated. It’s simplified, for the most part, so it’s easier to focus on certain aspects of the game if there is not so much going on at one time that you are not familiar with or you are trying to create from scratch.(something Capcom gets but Playmore seems to forget a lot)
One thing I gotta ask is the comment about MVC2 you are just saying that to say something a broke game did that makes it appealing and not saying MVC2 is a good game. Cause MVC2 is a “bad game”. It just happens to be a bad game a lot of people like but it fits in all the categories of why you called KOF 2001 a bad game. Again not saying it’s not popular for it’s own reasons. personally I love playing SVC Chaos but it’s also has the “bad game” tag on it.
Why is MVC2 bad? Are the infinites really easy to do and confirm? Not really. Are all infinites used true infinites? No some are bypassed by Dizzying out. Do the found glitches and mechanics diversify or hurt the metagame by simplifying it to a singular sort of tactic? No MVC2 has different sorts of viable styles such as run away, rush down, chip damage traps, and all sorts of interesting mix ups/resets. If anything, the only thing guilty of MVC2 is the fact that all the other characters outside of the top 6 or 8 aren’t viable for top level play. Let’s say MVC2 was made and those bottom characters were cut out of the game. Would it really make top level play any different? Would it still be a bad game when “most” of the cast is viable when there is only about 8 or 10 characters? Technically all the characters would be viable and the end result is a good game still. It’s no different than people choosing ABC in 02 or just playing Daimon/Chizuru/Iori in 98.
In the case for 2001, it boiled it self down mostly to playing May Lee, doing huge hurr and derp blockstrings while having Xiangfei and Seth out on Assist, then confirming into an easy 100%. What necessarily is a good game? A good game would be a system that creates boundaries for which the contender would have to obey while reaching a goal, in this case beating the opponent, while still flexibly being able to have a diverse set of tools and strategies to obtain that goal. In MVC2, although the top 8 or 10 characters are viable, it’s mainly about the team synergy between the characters. With those amount of characters, then number of optimal configurations are beyond that number. Although some combinations are more popular than others, it doesn’t rule out the fact that those are still usable and have the potential to win a tournament unlike making bottom tier teams or mid tier teams. So although not all of the sets of tools to achieve the means are viable, there still is a sizable amount to use in Marvel vs. Capcom 2. From that, there are also still a number of viable tactics and strategies in MVC2. You could have teams such as MSP and rush the fuck out of someone or you could have Cable/Capcom/Sentinel and go on the defense/turtle. Then you have teams such as Clockw0rk and get the opponent into a trap and chip damage him to death. So even with these exclusive top tier teams, there still a diverse set of strategies that are viable. Then let’s get into the 100% combos and infinites. Most of these are usually hard to set up and even certain ones, once confirmed, are difficult to keep going. One could snap back an assist and the opponent’s front character and infinite the assist but trying to set that up is much more difficult than to set up for a May Lee 100% in 2001. The easiest infinites such as the one Storm does on Sentinel is also not necessarily easy to land either. Then there are infinites such as the Rom infinite which are not real infinites due to the fact that the opponent will eventually dizzy out so the player performing it will have to reset back into it. So although there are infinites and 100% combos in the game, it isn’t necessarily easy to perform and get the correct situation to perform them, much in contrast to KOF 2001. Then in regards to character variety and actual sets of viable tools, the top tier characters in MVC2 have most of the same tools the bottom tier do but better and condensed into singular characters. So the “real” amount of tools viable in MVC2 didn’t really diminish as tier gap widened. In contrast, in KOF 2001 it did. With the amount of characters and kinds of tools, the best one and pretty much only one is to play May Lee, rush down with a plethora of normals and cancels while stuffing all opponent escapes then confirm into 100% which isn’t necessarily difficult at all. That’s all it is. There’s no diverse set of tools within the viable characters and within 1 or 2 mistakes, one confirms into a 100% that is pretty much not hard to drop. Then group in other set backs such as clunky controls, artwork that didn’t jive with many fans, and the sense of incompleteness and lack of refinement made 2001 a bad game. MVC2 is a good game; albeit not best but there is no such this as the “best game.”
So while MVC2, broken down into an objective state, is still a good game regardless of all characters being viable; KOF 2001 narrows down the amount of tools to just about May Lee/Xiangfei/Seth/Filler doing general rushdown that does 100% one confirmed thus having a very small if not one set of viable tools that are easy to do to receive a win.
“It is a bad game because the game has 100% combos that are easy in terms of execution and there are no means around them (unlike MVC2 in both aspects)”. So you, Mr Bakaboy, say that my reasoning of why KOF 2001 is bad should also be able to denote that MVC2 would be a bad game because they hold same/similar regards? You are wrong because it does not hold up as I gave reasons why MVC2 doesn’t have easy (confirmable, setup-able) 100%/infinites and there are other means and tactics/systems that bypass and avoid those infinites. Then couple this with the fact that it does have a diverse subset of tools does make MVC2 a good game.
“you are just saying that to say something a broke game did that makes it appealing and not saying MVC2 is a good game.” This kind of hurts my head when trying to read this. Especially the “not saying MVC2 is a good game.” I never indicated that MVC2 was a bad game. I gave a reason why KOF 2001 is bad because of two certain factors: infinites and the means to avoid them. The key adjectives that describe the infinites that 2001 had and the means around them are easy and none respectively. Now you have the concept of Easy Infinites and No Means of Avoidance that constitute 2001. I used MVC2 as an example of the opposite, difficult infinites and variable means against infinites; and that although MVC2 still has the factors of infinites in the game, MVC2 is in contrast a good game because it is different in its regards to infinites.
MVC2 has plenty of problems personally if I have to list them to you then you are WAY to much on the Capcom bandwagon and I should stop now. Just to start Cable is way too easy. Ironman doesn’t take much to start his especially with the right assist knocking the player up. Sentinel? Really do I need to go there? How about there are only a handful of characters that you can use in a competitive match.
Dude simply put MVC2 is completely broken. Nobody sane has argued that. However the argument is that it’s still fun. I’m not contesting that (though personally it’s not my cup of tea for the most part). I AM contesting that even the programmers have said the system is barely patched together. The music is horrific. The backgrounds are totally out of place and make most long for MVC1 backgrounds. Also why they had to switch to a 4 button style is beyond me.
It was a rush job that people fell in love with. Just like Rocky Horror Picture Show. It struck a nerve with an audience and people latched onto it. I have no problem with this. Facts are facts though and the way your described KOF 2001 nails the problems with MVC2. Loving a bad game is not a crime. Hell I can sit here and argue why SVC Chaos is a good game, but I know better.
If you’re going to tell people how their game is broken and bad it’s just usually not a good idea to compare it to another broken and bad game. It makes you look a little bias.
No, I just didn’t feel like making a thesis on why his logic is flawed. About 10 characters are viable in mvc2. Storm, Doom, Sentinel, Cable, Cyclops, Tron, Strider, Iron Man, Captain Commando, Magneto. the other 56 can be used, but you will be at a severe disadvantage if so.
The man’s logic is that May Lee, Seth, XiangFei has such an easy 100% combo that anyone can pull it off and it has no defense? Anybody wanna pull it up on youtube. I tried and got this:
How about Iron Man?:
[media=youtube]NNaq0GuRVno[/media]
Sentinel:
[media=youtube]a156w2ngodg[/media]
It goes on and on with this game and that’s not even introducing tags and super cancels into the mix.
So his arguement is 3 players, May Lee, Seth, XiangFei makes this entire game unplayable and MVC2 is totally playable cause… well I guess cause it’s balanced mayhem. Infinites everywhere make it a good game? Really???
Lets look at tournaments from KOF 2001 and see who they are playing:
[media=youtube]-YUHKV6D8Hs]YouTube - [KOF 2001 match[/media]
[media=youtube]F3uVYpJriv0[/media]
[media=youtube]t3wE4wQrJto]YouTube - [KOF 2001 match[/media]
Yup the players there have some of those characters, but what do I see?!?!?! THEY HAVE OTHER PLAYERS AS WELL?!?!?!?
How about MVC2:
[media=youtube]F3uVYpJriv0[/media]
[media=youtube]JGsBK9GrTrQ&feature=related[/media]
[media=youtube]jM5QmA4uNUY[/media]
Now of the two how many infinites did you see KOF 2001 players go to and how many did you see MVC2 go to. Also the big 3 were not always used in KOF 2001. The main 10 were used 95% of the time (first one had Psylocke).
This argument is f’n pointless & I was going to let it drop, but I don’t particularly like idiots thinking throwing random info makes an argument. Personally that wasn’t a shot at Laban cause at least he tried to make an argument.
And I see 777 dropping stuff because he doesn’t play 01 but the Korean that does getting 100% pretty often and dominated the Japanese player 3-1. 777 Still won with May Lee doing the main work and cleaning up with Kim.
I see Magnetos just doing ROM infinites which aren’t true infinites. The only other infinites I see are the snap back ones which still requires a large amount of set up to obtain. I don’t see the point of posting videos of infinites in training mode since factors such as earning the spacing and set up are irrelevant. The videos of the training mode infinites weren’t portrayed in the actual match vids.
Of course while having easy infinites and means around those infinites are a large factor in deciding whether a game is good or not, the other argument that I brought up is actual set of tools present within each game. This doesn’t mean how many characters are viable, it means the amount of actions and strategies that could be taken with those characters that are viable. The few viable characters in 01 don’t offer much at all in game play variability unlike previous KOF games.
So let’s look at the videos again. The most relevant videos are the ones where it’s Japan vs Korea as those are the people at the top of their game. The Japanese player did choose different character but as one could see obviously struggled against the Korean’s team and lost against the Korean player decisively. The Korean player landed the 100% combos from executionally easy set ups and May Lee still had the basic tools to keep an opponent on the neutral preventing a reverse of momentum so May Lee mainly had the advantage each match. With the MVC2 match vids, one could see cable being used to DHC into AHVB, keep away, or be used as AA Assist but the inifinites you posted from the training mode videos weren’t apparent in actual match play; it loses it’s relevancy as an easy infinite in actual match play. Those infinites apparently aren’t easy in the sense of being able to set up in actual match play, as the only relative infinites are the ones done in match play. With MVC2, it was mainly Magneto trying to land a ROM infinite, in which he has to set up with 4 point mix ups and with cross overs and assists and Magneto would still have to do a reset somewhere in the combo to prevent dizzy; and as that is the prevalent infinite throughout the videos, it isn’t necessarily an easy one to maintain as well unlike 2001 combos. The supposedly easy infinites with Ironman weren’t landed that much at all and when it did they were dropped like a fly to a zapper. I’ve seen more times May Lee attempt and completing 100%s than Ironman trying.
To tell you know, I like how you tried to refute my argument by bringing up points that I already counter-pointed in my original argument and proceed to post irrelevant videos while posting other videos that only help support my claim. So while disproving Marvel’s infinites are on the similar sense of ease and set up of KOF 2001, you also showed that there is still a huge sense of zoning and situational set up to earn those combos in MVC2 while 2001 doesn’t exhibit such diversity. So with the players at their top playing 2001, the May Lee team dominated. With players like 777 not even focusing on 2001, they still pull by easily with the May team regardless of dropping combos. Within the viable set of characters, which is the May Lee team the those that struggle to keep up with her, the actual amount of tools and strategies that lead into damage output are very little especially compared to previous KOF games. MVC2 still exhibits variation within those small subset of teams while at the same time having pseudo-infinites and infinites that are require more effort to set up and earn than playing “normal” KOF and do a normal bnb that gets extended into 100% with assists.
Your counters didn’t really change any of my stances of my argument and your evidence only strengthened my argument. So while you don’t understand/ignore my key points, you keep jumping back into the argument getting yourself countered right off the bat by making the same statements that didn’t really respond to my points. It’s like I threw a fireball and you jumped and I anti-aired. Then you keep responding by keeping on jumping in, each time. It’s like you’re learning and understanding nothing. You truly are Mr Bakaboy.
Also I don’t know how I’m on the Capcom bandwagon when all I like to do is play KOF98 and expose the fact that some people can’t read nor argue.
Hey, i really understand the points that everyone brings up against the game. Majority(if not all are pretty valid). The thing that I am saying is, there are still good things about the game, it was not a total flop, it was not unplayable, so it didn’t fail on ALL ENDs.
I merely wanted to the original poster to give the game a try, and then compare it to the others so he can decide which one he liked. I love 2k1, i really do. I am sure there are other games out there that are bad, but you still play because you found the good in it.
The “its a matter of preference” crutch is still valid in most cases, as that is how we make our choices in any fighting game. From our own love of the game, for the character we chose to use, the system, the character outfit, the “SIDE” we prefer to play on. It all comes down to our preference. whether the game is good or bad, it still comes down to the individual to make the choice to play it.
Thanks guys I got a lot of info and perspective in this thread I just went to my local flea market and got KOF98UM for $25 so I’m gonna go learn to play that for fun. I never knew it was out in North America, I thought I would have had to import it if I wanted it but I guess only 2002UM isn’t out here right? Also I think I know an arcade with KOF2001, I’ll check it out the next time I pass through there. As long as King is in the game, because King’s awesome
(As I wrote that the very thought of a woman named King was just too overwhelming.)
Oh yeah, that bonus disc with the game should have been like a “how to play” to play or something, I know there’s already videos like that on youtube, I think from DandyJ(?) but it just seemed like a waste to have a disc with trailers and wallpaper. >.>
yeah, and we all know how well you know your shit. you finally learn the difference bwteen input lag and online lag? lol.
ms cheerleader, 94 sucks. i know theres “fans” that like crappy bs games for some reason but the shit aint good. not even close to it. if you wanna play a decent old ass kof wait for 95. or go for the newer shit, even 13 still pretty much plays like 97. the first real kof like we all know and love.
edit: training mode and ast are a must for a psn released game. especially for the retarded ass prices they be asking.
I just went to my local flea market and got KOF98UM for $25 so I’m gonna go learn to play that for fun. 
