Knights of the Round Table: Teams and Assists

[MrBGuy]

I have a question:

If holding u/b works like you say, and it’s easy to simply pushblock everything (but not everything, because a missed pushblock could mean death), you’re basically saying that Dark Phoenix is easy to beat, right? Corner yourself, hold u/b, pushblock everything and tech all throws. Done deal.

If you think Arthur is comparable to Dark Phoenix, then I don’t know what to say to you. Dark Phoenix has a slide, overhead, airdash, instant flight overheads, and above all, her feathers makes any button you press extremely risky and it keeps you in constant blockstun so if you land, you have to stay standing longer. Besides that, in case you haven’t heard, cornering yourself and holding upback is a way to fight Dark Phoenix, its just that it is not a guaranteed counter to it like it is with Arthur.

…except for, you know, the part where he lost 50% health on Spencer while desperately trying to run away and pushblock everything.

That is a perfect example of someone who does not know how to counter Dark Arthur.

Also note how Dark Arthur didn’t kill a single character. Had he known that my timer was up, he would have dashed up and easily OTG with Doom.

That’s a strange interpretation, given that he was doing nothing but losing life when trying to u/b and pushblock, yet landed a potentially match-ending combo as soon as he decided to rush instead of run…

Ok, lets say he chose not to rush and didn’t land that combo, lets say I don’t end up killing Spencer. Timer’s up, Arthur’s dead with a wire grapple OTG. Lets say I DO kill Spencer, there is not enough time to finish off Doom if he just holds upback, and he would be a few hops away from OTG’ing with st.M, and I’m dead again.

But let’s address the elephant in the room, here: you appear to play anchor Arthur, so in your own words, exactly what is it that YOU expect anchor Arthur to do? After casually dismissing every option anchor Arthur has, I am greatly interested in hearing your explanation of why you play Arthur in that spot at all.

Once more: every single fault you find with gold Arthur is magnified in silver. So please do explain.

Against a smart player, I don’t expect him to do shit. As in my sig, that was my original squad, the one I started playing Ultimate with. When I won my first tourny with him, I was ready to ride or die with him no matter what. However, after playing smart players (like Dios X and ChrisG) who actually know how to counter him, I realized that Anchor Arthur was just a gimmick, and he would be a liability if I kept him on my team. I play to win, so I play characters who have multiple options in many scenarios, not just j.S, chip, and not be that good of a character once XF runs out and you’re all by yourself. And the biggest fault that Gold Armor has and Silver doesn’t is that Game Over timer. I don’t want to make any assumptions, but it seems like you play players that don’t know how to counter him, and still rush Arthur down when there is a sure-fire way to beat him.

Now a question for you: Since you say upback, pushblocking, and saving XF isn’t an effective way to completely eliminate Dark Arthur, please tell me, how are you going to hit me? While other Dark Anchors have teleports, ground dashes, and self mixups AND are viable without XF AND don’t have a ticking time bomb, what are you going to do to stop me from upbacking and pushblocking whatever you do and kill you when you’re timer runs out? I’ve listed the ways you aren’t gonna hit me, so please tell me that.

[Spider-Dan]

Dark Phoenix has a slide, overhead, airdash, instant flight overheads, and above all, her feathers makes any button you press extremely risky and it keeps you in constant blockstun so if you land, you have to stay standing longer.

Every single one of those overhead options is MUCH slower than Arthur’s j.S, so I am forced to wonder why everyone does not just block them every time.

Besides that, in case you haven’t heard, cornering yourself and holding upback is a way to fight Dark Phoenix, its just that it is not a guaranteed counter to it like it is with Arthur.

Well, if your position is that “pushblock everything, never get baited into a false pushblock, and tech all throws” is a solid strategy, Dark Phoenix isn’t a big deal at all, right?

Also note how Dark Arthur didn’t kill a single character. Had he known that my timer was up, he would have dashed up and easily OTG with Doom.

If you’re going to play Hindsight Fighter, I’d say the better solution would have been to DHC to Photon Array instead of Sphere Flame, which would have killed you outright and made your armor state irrelevant.

I would also like to point out that had you been in silver armor, you would have been dead long before the DHC, due to the lack of gold armor defense increase. Which, again, makes the armor pop mightily irrelevant.

Ok, lets say he chose not to rush and didn’t land that combo, lets say I don’t end up killing Spencer. Timer’s up, Arthur’s dead with a wire grapple OTG.

Is he following your recommended strategy of u/b? Near timer end, jump back with daggers, end with ground daggers into bracelet (into armor pop). Spencer cannot punish that at fullscreen, nor can Doom.

Lets say I DO kill Spencer, there is not enough time to finish off Doom if he just holds upback, and he would be a few hops away from OTG’ing with st.M, and I’m dead again.

See above. The only characters that can punish fullscreen bracelet into armor pop are those who will easily walk over Arthur regardless of armor state (save maybe Magneto).

Against a smart player, I don’t expect him to do shit. As in my sig, that was my original squad, the one I started playing Ultimate with. When I won my first tourny with him, I was ready to ride or die with him no matter what. However, after playing smart players (like Dios X and ChrisG) who actually know how to counter him, I realized that Anchor Arthur was just a gimmick, and he would be a liability if I kept him on my team.

So in other words: you don’t play Arthur anymore because you think he sucks. Might be more useful to lead with that next time.

You seem to be under the impression that someone here is saying that Arthur is a godlike anchor that steamrolls the cast. The point is that relative to Arthur’s other options, XF3 Gold is incredibly effective; it would be nice if Arthur could use Spiral Swords or Ouroboros, but he can’t, so we only evaluate choices among the options that are actually available to him.

If you are playing against an opponent that can completely neutralize XF3 Gold, non-XF silver Arthur is going to be completely impotent anyway, so XF3 Gold is still your best shot (other than your preferred option, which is “pick a different character”).

And the biggest fault that Gold Armor has and Silver doesn’t is that Game Over timer.

I’m still waiting for you to give any sort of logical explanation why silver would not be worse off than gold. Again, after XF runs out, you aren’t rushing down anyone.

Now a question for you: Since you say upback, pushblocking, and saving XF isn’t an effective way to completely eliminate Dark Arthur, please tell me, how are you going to hit me?

If you can perfectly block all highs, never mistime a pushblock, avoid every low attempt, and tech every throw attempt, I won’t be able to hit you at all.

Just like nearly every other character in the cast.

[ShADoW_NoBODy]

What is the argument exactly? If gold armor is worth it or not? If that is the real argument I think it totally depends on the situation at hand. I tried to prolong my use of Silver armor and only gold armor if I need it. I don’t expect to win with Lances unless my opponent doesn’t know the match-up at all.
If I face 3 opponents I’m hoping for them to get risky and call an assist if not there is a high chance I’m not winning the round because arthur isn’t that good of comebacks unless the opponent makes mistakes

I think Arthur doesn’t put you into situations like say Vergil, Phoenix, Strider, Etc. I think Arthur capitalizes on the lack of knowledge or simple mistakes. And that’s what his biggest problem is. That he can’t put you into all these situations and he has more negatives than positives to make him truly effective.

[MrBGuy]

If you can perfectly block all highs, never mistime a pushblock, avoid every low attempt, and tech every throw attempt, I won’t be able to hit you at all.

Since you won’t answer my question directly, I’ll just take this^
-Block all highs happens when you are holding upback.
-Even if I mistime a pushblock, Arthur can’t convert of off j.S in the air into a full combo. The worst is I eat 1 projectile.
-For avoiding every low attempt, in what situation or manner will Arthur be next to me without taking to the air? Since he can’t ground dash, he has to go through the air, so whatever he does can blocked or even get hit in the air since he can’t convert.
-Teching throws is kinda easier when that is the only thing you have to worry about, since every other option doesn’t lead into a dead character or serious damage.

Just like nearly every other character in the cast.

Other Dark Anchors have teleports, ground dashes, and self mixups AND are viable without XF AND don’t have a ticking time bomb.

If you can’t dispute those four points that Dark Arthur struggles with, I don’t see how you can argue that Dark Arthur can reliably make a comeback.

And as for jump back daggers into full screen Goddess Bracelet, thanks, you provided me with a 1 meter solution on top of the 1 meter spent that fixes a problem that activating Gold Armor started in the first place.

[Spider-Dan]

Since you won’t answer my question directly, I’ll just take this^
-Block all highs happens when you are holding upback.
-Even if I mistime a pushblock, Arthur can’t convert of off j.S in the air into a full combo. The worst is I eat 1 projectile.

At normal jump height, if you eat a dagger, axe, or lance, ground lances link and you died.

-For avoiding every low attempt, in what situation or manner will Arthur be next to me without taking to the air? Since he can’t ground dash, he has to go through the air, so whatever he does can blocked or even get hit in the air since he can’t convert.

I am puzzled as to why you continue to focus on the fact that Arthur has to jump. Doom has to jump to dash (since he can’t attack out of his ground dash). Same for Dorm. Why does this even matter? You can do SJ.S with the same speed and effect as a triangle jump airdash (only without a height restriction).

-Teching throws is kinda easier when that is the only thing you have to worry about, since every other option doesn’t lead into a dead character or serious damage.

…except that it isn’t the only thing you’re worrying about, since you also are trying to pushblock everything, right? You can mash on pushblock, or you can studiously sit on throw tech, but you can’t do both.

If you can’t dispute those four points that Dark Arthur struggles with, I don’t see how you can argue that Dark Arthur can reliably make a comeback.

If you lionize all defensive options in the way you have been, the only thing remaining is left/right mixups and anti-air command throws. Using this logic, Magneto and Firebrand are both horrible anchors: hold u/b, mash pushblocks, tech all throws.

And as for jump back daggers into full screen Goddess Bracelet, thanks, you provided me with a 1 meter solution on top of the 1 meter spent that fixes a problem that activating Gold Armor started in the first place.

You act as if XF3 Gold Arthur will be hurting for meter… particularly against an opponent that just holds u/b.

Losing two meters to have gold armor during XF3 is more than worth it: it completely shuts down any assist calling (silver Arthur is horrible at punishing assists), gives you gold xbow (good for sky runaway), and gold lance/heavenly slash to convert random hits into death.

[MrBGuy]

Are you really comparing Doom and Magneto’s high low ability with that of Arthur? In case you have not noticed, but in terms of mobility, both on the ground and in the air, Arthur isn’t even in the same league as those characters. Both Doom and Magneto have mashable cr.L, they both can empty air dash into cr.L, and they both can move so fast that you don’t have enough time to react to throws. The difference between Arthur and Doom is that Doom has an 8 way air dash; Arthur only has j.S. Seeing as how Arthur can only go down with j.S, I can be pretty sure that he is going to fall with that.

You can mash on pushblock, or you can studiously sit on throw tech, but you can’t do both.

Oh really? Thanks brain for letting me know the combination of these two actions are impossible to perform simultaneously, especially since you can’t plink pushblocks with H-M so that they option select as throws.

Losing two meters to have gold armor during XF3 is more than worth it: it completely shuts down any assist calling (silver Arthur is horrible at punishing assists), gives you gold xbow (good for sky runaway), and gold lance/heavenly slash to convert random hits into death.

Shuts down assist calling, but doesn’t matter since I’m not trying to go in on you while you have armor and XF
Gold crossbow is good but its not gonna take out an entire character.
Gold lance and heavenly slash, hmm seems like if my block button breaks, then yea I am going to get hit by that.

And never once did I say that you should “mash” pushblock, and never once did I say this tactic works against other anchors, just exclusively to Dark Arthur. Once again, you name points that would only work IF I was rushing you down while you had Gold Armor and XF.

[Spider-Dan]

<blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“MrBGuy”>Are you really comparing Doom and Magneto’s high low ability with that of Arthur?</blockquote>
Not really, since Arthur’s high-low in XF3 gold is far superior.

<blockquote class=“UserQuote”>In case you have not noticed, but in terms of mobility, both on the ground and in the air, Arthur isn’t even in the same league as those characters. Both Doom and Magneto have mashable cr.L, they both can empty air dash into cr.L, and they both can move so fast that you don’t have enough time to react to throws.</blockquote>
Arthur expert in the building, I see. You are aware that Arthur also has a mashable c.L, right? In point of fact, against a medium-sized character like Magneto, XF3 Gold Arthur can whiff j.S and still land close enough to chain 4 c.Ls. You keep mentioning mobility as if Arthur’s XF3 air S is not a better version of a triangle dash with no height restriction and the ability to nearly instant overhead. Against anyone not named Sentinel, Magneto and Doom have nothing even remotely close to Arthur’s air S when it comes to overhead speed. It’s a blowout.

<blockquote class=“UserQuote”>The difference between Arthur and Doom is that Doom has an 8 way air dash; Arthur only has j.S. Seeing as how Arthur can only go down with j.S, I can be pretty sure that he is going to fall with that.</blockquote>
What else is Doom going to do with his airdash… go up? Why does that even matter?

The only relevant directions in this comparison are the downward directions. Doom and Magneto can <i>move</i> faster during it but cannot attack nearly as fast out of it.

<blockquote class=“UserQuote”>Oh really? Thanks brain for letting me know the combination of these two actions are impossible to perform simultaneously, especially since you can’t plink pushblocks with H-M so that they option select as throws.</blockquote>
Once again: if you are sitting there trying to pushblock every attack, you are setting yourself up to eat any jump projectile Arthur throws out. You can either try to pushblock everything, or you can sit on throw tech, but <u>you cannot do both</u>. If your reflexes are fast enough to pushblock everything AND tech all throw attempts (against XF3!), you should have no problem stomping out Magneto (and many other characters) at all times, because <b>that’s his entire game</b>.

<blockquote class=“UserQuote”>[re: gold vs silver]
Shuts down assist calling, but doesn’t matter since I’m not trying to go in on you while you have armor and XF</blockquote>
Again, the point is that you can toss out assists to get silver Arthur away from you (because silver is horrible at punishing) but you cannot call assists against gold because gold slaughters them better than nearly anyone else in the game.

<blockquote class=“UserQuote”>And never once did I say that you should “mash” pushblock, and never once did I say this tactic works against other anchors, just exclusively to Dark Arthur.</blockquote>
Right, but using your logic, if you can shut down Arthur with this strategy, you would also be able to shut down any anchor without a left-right mixup or anti-air command throw. You just choose to arbitrarily say “I pushblock everything and tech all throws against Arthur but against other characters that’s too hard” while throwing out easily refuted factoids in defense of that claim.

To reemphasize this point: if you can easily shut down Arthur every time by holding u/b and teching all throws, you have nothing to fear from almost any anchor in the game.

[Robo_Sol]

Okay I changed my mind on the last postings. Thoughts on Arthur/strange/doom? I like the second two, should i rearrange the order? doom/strange/Arthur?

The second team I thought up would be arthur/Trish/doom or trish/arthur/doom. i need to hit the lab more on each team i mentioned .

[The_Electrifying_One]

Hi SpiderDan, long time no speak… I’m interested in Arthur, can you show any videos of your play? I’d be interested in seeing your theory in action and doing a bit of copy pasting :-p

[Spider-Dan]

edit: Here’s some matches from today. There’s a string of my matches starting around 20:00, with lots of Arthur play after 28:40:<p>

http://www.twitch.tv/gunmetal/b/381093821

[pat728]

I’m reviving this thread to talk about arthur teams. I want to know who you people think uses Arthur’s assist/support the best. You can give a top 5/10/whatever or just list all the notable ones.

I think mine would have to look like this:
1 Vergil
2 Haggar
3 Spencer
4 Nova
5 Akuma

[linainverse]

ive been playin artur alot recently on point, and i really think he shines there,
coupled with great assists,
im trying arthur(daggers/bottle) dante jam sessions and strange bolts

he seems to have alot of control with them and his keep away and, bolts helps him rush down
he also seems very quick,

wat do u guys thinK?

[pat728]

ive been playin artur alot recently on point, and i really think he shines there,
coupled with great assists,
im trying arthur(daggers/bottle) dante jam sessions and strange bolts

he seems to have alot of control with them and his keep away and, bolts helps him rush down
he also seems very quick,

wat do u guys thinK?

It’s fun, but arthur is not a good point character. He does use a lot of the good assists well like missiles, vajra, drones, and cold star.

[Helter_Skelter]

Vergil/Arthur/Strange?

[TimTim]

_____, Dormamu, Arthur
Who do you guys think I should put on point?
Haggar gets a lot of benefits from the two but I’d like to see my other options.

[pat728]

Who do you like? Quite a few characters can fit there. Whenever I’m learning a new character, my team is often (new character)/vergil/arthur just because it’s so widely usable. Dorm/arthur is a similar deal since it’s arthur daggers and a strong DHC + lockdown assist.

[TimTim]

Who do you like? Quite a few characters can fit there. Whenever I’m learning a new character, my team is often (new character)/vergil/arthur just because it’s so widely usable. Dorm/arthur is a similar deal since it’s arthur daggers and a strong DHC + lockdown assist.

I like a few too many characters so I’m looking for the best synergy.

[pat728]

Who do you like? Quite a few characters can fit there. Whenever I’m learning a new character, my team is often (new character)/vergil/arthur just because it’s so widely usable. Dorm/arthur is a similar deal since it’s arthur daggers and a strong DHC + lockdown assist.

I like a few too many characters so I’m looking for the best synergy.

The most synergy as well as being good would probably go to:

Haggar
Nova
Akuma
Spencer
Wesker
Wolverine
Taskmaster
Hawkeye

[TimTim]

Who do you like? Quite a few characters can fit there. Whenever I’m learning a new character, my team is often (new character)/vergil/arthur just because it’s so widely usable. Dorm/arthur is a similar deal since it’s arthur daggers and a strong DHC + lockdown assist.

I like a few too many characters so I’m looking for the best synergy.

The most synergy as well as being good would probably go to:

Haggar
Nova
Akuma
Spencer
Wesker
Wolverine
Taskmaster
Hawkeye

Gracias man you’ve literally been so hepful.
Thanks!.

[AcidicEnema]

Has anyone ever tried point arthur with doom rocks? Rocks really seem like the ideal assist for the King