Kinnikuman: Muscle Grand Prix 2(PS2 port on the way)

fliper · October 19, 2008, 6:31pm

wow no offense but i ask a question and get ignored…but another guy comes and gets his questions answered and when i say something stupid y’all flame me? wtf

ChopperMan · October 19, 2008, 6:48pm

Well bro, you’re basically asking for everything to be handed to you without even looking.

I mean right above your initial post was a training mode breakdown

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5584534&postcount=50

As for FAQ, I’d just ask specific questions if you have them. I can probably answer the most basic “How do you do…” questions and Festival still checks this topic apparently so she can probably help you with the more specific and advanced ones.

Festival6667 · October 19, 2008, 9:27pm

None taken, it must already be hard to be a gamefaq whore and be terrified by the concept of exploring things in a practice mode (to think I’m from a generation of players who actually understood everything only by trial and error during vs at arcades… I feel so old)

Shit happens… I’m sorry that it hit you so hard.

I dunno, perhaps he’s got bigger boobs than you?

welcome to SRK! (well, you admit yourself getting flamed after saying something stupid. Not to mention this place has become so friendly I don’t think these were actually flames, more like a warm pat on the head)

I recommend a hot milk and a big hug.:tup:

Festival6667 · October 20, 2008, 4:15am

Well, back on the subject, here’s a mashup of some basic knowledge from SuperKing’s posts and mine on GC.net (most of this is in the booklet of the game though…)

Notation: usually we used the numpad notation because it’s convenient and for buttons, about everyone serious about the game used the KRSG notation, KRSG meaning
?(K): Strike
?®: Grapple
?(S): Special
G: Guard

Btw, the common button layout is:
KRS
G

movement:

walk on 4 and 6
hops (or steppings if you prefer) using 66 and 44, dash being 66(maintained) as usual.
sidesteps on 22 and 88.
IIRC there’s a Tekken-like 180position change on 44G (on a sidenote, MG2 has corrected most of the weird camera angle/position changes from MG1/MAX)

Talking about guard:

guard on G
parry on 6G
grab tech-out on 4G
(once again, as usual parry/ungrab gives you some frame advantage to counter, albeit only a little)
Some characters have specific counters for a given throw. It’s performed with 4G like a normal tech out but has different effects (these specific counters actually come from the Kinnikuman storyline)

About running moves : in MG2, on top of the running strike (K while dashing) there is now a running throw (R while dashing)

Special throws:

every characters has throws specific to medium and heavy stagger, as well as a throw from behind and one when throwing a running opponent (like one irish-whipped into the ropes)
some characters also have alternate version of those and/or throw when the opponent has his back to the ropes or the corner
some characters also have air grabs that need to be input after any launcher either when the opponent is in the ascending or descending phase.
last but not least, all characters have a hammer throw, which most players refer to as an Irish Whip (if you don’t know what an Irish Whip is, just wikipedia it or something). It is performed by 4R and obviously throws the opponent running, hopefully to the ropes.

Tension:
The tension bar is what would be called a super meter in most other games, it can be filled up to 10

You can build up tension using 64S (like in the EXTRA mode of KOF or a DBZ game, etc)
Specials (anything that uses the S button, aside tension charging) consume tension (usually 1 to 5 bars), as do supers (9bars). Tension consumption ins specified in the movelists
Charge Cancelling. Often referred to as CC, it consists of cancelling tension charging. If timed correctly it can be used to extend juggles or even ground combos.
Activation is performed by pressing KRS at once, it acts as a GG burst and gives you specific advantages depending on the inner strength you have selected. The time of the activation is proportional to the meter you have when you activate. Supers can be performed for free during activation (but supers take a lot of time so activation is likely to end during it)

The Inner Strengths:
I won’t go into full detail but basically

Blue is offense-oriented, gives you a damage bonus when your life bar is flashing and activation allows you to string strikes by cancelling any strike into another normal or special strike (kinda like custom combos).
Green is Defense-oriented, gives you better recovery and you take a little less damage when your life bar is flashing. During activation you are immune to medium stagger, so basically you have super armor against most strikes.
Red is tension-oriented, makes you build up tension faster. Infinite tension gauge during activation.

–

Please please please DON’T tell me why you suddenly decided that I had to be a girl.

ChopperMan · October 20, 2008, 7:53am

It was a combination of your avatar and just a typo in general

My bad.

Thanks for the post though

umgogo · October 20, 2008, 8:12am

The instant he enters the ring he is killed by Mammothman’s Nose Fencing.

Inner Stength types

Blue
Flashing lifebar = your character inflicts more damage
Activation = anything can be cancelled into anything, i.e. Custom Combos
Activation at MAX Tension = as above + ?one-part attacks? (moves that are not part of a string?) become unblockable

Green
Flashing lifebar = your character takes less damage
Activation = normal attacks will not induce hit stun (though your character still takes damage)
Activation at MAX Tension = as above + even attacks that normally induce middle stun will not stun your character

Red
Flashing lifebar = your character can accumulate Tension at a very rapid pace (whether by manual charging or dealing/receiving damage)
Activation = for the duration of the mode, all special moves - except the Level 9 Super moves - can be done without Tension cost
Activation at MAX Tension = as above + the Level 9 Super moves become available (though connecting with one will usually use up the remaining Inner Strength time, as mentioned in the previous post)

Stun types

Middle Stun
Usually induced with lighter attacks and strings. Performing a single light attack on an opponent in Heavy Stun (see below) may lead to a Middle Stun, as will a light attack done after an Irish Whip.

Heavy Stun
Far easier to recognize than Middle Stun, Heavy Stun commonly occurs after hard-hitting attacks that do not knock down, such as dropkicks, rolling sobats and shoulder charges. Many running attacks and strike-type Level 1-3 special moves cause Heavy Stun. Landing another HS-inducing hit an opponent who is already in Heavy Stun will usually knock down said opponent.

Throw types

Front throws
Done from the front. Unblockable, but can be countered (escaped) with the b+Guard command. Near as I can tell, all basic front throws have the same range, which is to say, not very far.

Back throws
Done from the back. Back throws usually do more damage than fron throws, though not to the degree seen in most 3D fighting games. Unlike their Tekken/VF/DoA counterparts, they may also be countered (escaped), just like any other throw. Lastly, it seems that the ?back turned? state overrides all other throw conditions, meaning that as long as your character is standing behind his opponent, any use of the Throw/Grab button will perform a back throw, regardless of whether or not the opponent is stunned or you do a command throw that is not a back throw (see below).

Middle/Heavy Stun throws
Front throws done against an opponent in Middle/Heavy Stun. These often do more damage than ordinary front throws, and a few HS throws launch the opponent into the air, allowing for juggles.

Rebound/vs. running throws
This type of throw is used against running opponents, be they running of their own accord or after being Irish Whipped into the ropes. Provided that the opponent is running, these are automatically performed when the Throw/Grab button is pressed. In other words, command throws cannot be done right after an Irish Whip. No character possesses more than one rebound/vs. running throw, and all of them drain approximately one level of Tension from the opponent when connected.

Interestingly, it would seem that these are also inescapable, unlike all other throws.

Command throws (front/back)
Command throws are done with a direction or controller motion + the Throw/Grab button (e.g. f+T or qcb+T).

Practically every character has at least one front command throw. (Barrierfreeman is the only exception that I can think of.) Front command throws may do more damage and (more importantly) have greater range than normal front throws; some, such as Kevin Mask?s hcf+T Mount Kougeki and dp+T STF, are even preceded by a short, tackle-like rush.

Back command throws are little more than alternate back throws, as they rarely do significantly more damage. They are also far less prolific than front command throws.

Air throws (rising opponent)
Some characters have air throws that must be done against a launched opponent, while he is on his way up.

Air catches (falling opponent)
Air catches (which are slightly more common than air throws) are employed against opponents who are descending after a launch. BTW, Kinnikuman Big Body and Kevin are the only characters to possess both an air throw and an air catch.

Rope-proximity command throws
A few characters (Kinnikuman, Mariposa, Zebra and Kevin, and anyone I am forgetting) have command throws that can only be done when the opponent?s back is against the ropes. In the case of Kevin?s Royal Stretch, at least, a rope-proximity command throw will drain at least two levels of Tension from the opponent.

Corner-proximity command throws
Possessed by Atlantis, Kinnikuman Mariposa and Kevin + ? For all intents and purposes, these are identical to rope-proximity command throws (including the Tension-draining property), save that they are done with the opponent?s back to the corner.

Special moves

Special moves come in many categories, as outlined below.

Strike type
Average Tension cost: 1-3 levels
Typical commands: Special/direction + Special
Examples: Mantaro?s Mantaro Air, Super Phoenix?s Phoenix Straight
Comments: These consist of punching, kicking and rushing attacks. Many induce Heavy Stun or launch the opponent, and they tend to be effective as combo-extenders/finishers. Every character has at least one strike-type special move, and some (such as Ramenman and Mariposa) have a plethora of them.

Projectile type
Average Tension cost: 2-3 levels
Typical commands: qcf+Special/hcf+Special
Examples: The Ninja?s Ninja Shuriken, Ashuraman?s Tatsumaki Jigoku
Comments: Few and far between, projectile moves are blockable, but often fast and safe to use.

Hit-throw type
Average Tension cost: 2-3 levels
Typical commands: b, f+Special/f, f+Special
Examples: Warsman?s Bear Claw Finish, Kevin?s Daruma Otoshi Combination
Comments: These are basically strikes that lead into a short flurry of hits. Since they are blockable like strikes, and do not connect in full against airborne opponents, their use is limited to finishing ground combos.

Throw type
Average Tension cost: 3 levels
Typical commands: qcf+Special/qcb+Special/dp+Special
Examples: Kinnikuman?s Kinniku Buster, Ilioukhine?s Siberian Tarurana
Think of these as special command throws. Like command throws, their range may vary (e.g. the Kinniku Driver is a tackle-throw), as may the damage done. Though one may always escape a special throw (even if it is done in a combo), the cost/damage ratio is favourable enough to make them worth attempting.

Multi-throw type
Average Tension cost: 5-7 levels
Typical commands: hcb+Special/rdp+Special, then various inputs+Throw
Examples: Kinnikuman?s Fuu Rin Ka Zan, Terry the Kid?s Earth Clip Kick ? Spinning Toe Hold/T. Clover Hold
Comments: Some of the multi-part sequences begin with a throw, others, with a strike. Most have two different follow-up routes, one being longer than the other by a step or two. I believe that any step (besides the last one in a longer chain?) may be escaped. While the Tension cost is relatively high, the damage potential of moves like the Fuu Rin Ka Zan and Mantaro?s Iroha Hell Tour is impressive.

Counter type
Average Tension cost: 3-5 levels
Typical commands: b, b+Special/rdp+Special
Examples: Pentagon?s Chronos Change, Mariposa?s Hishou no Technique
Comments: Counter attacks that are triggered by the opponent attempting to strike or throw your character out of a taunting pose.

Super moves

Tension cost: 9 levels
Typical commands: motion + Throw + Special/motion + Strike + Special
Examples: Jade?s Beefcake Hammer, Scarface?s Ultimate Scar Buster
Comments: Super moves have three basic variations: throw type (some require proximity to the ropes), hit-throw type (ditto), and counter type (only Pentagon?s Stop the Time and Mr. Kamen?s Kaikousen). Warsman?s Nitouryuu Screwdriver is an exception ? either of the two hits may miss, depending on positioning.

In general, throw and hit-throw super moves have longer range than any other throw/hit-throw. However, it seems very difficult (or even impossible) to cancel anything into a super move. Hence, reliably comboing into one requires the use of a move that induces Heavy Stun, from which one may either go straight into the super move or do a quick-recovering move into it.

Keep in mind that a super move can be escaped as easily as any throw.

fliper · October 20, 2008, 8:22am

Festival6667:

Well, back on the subject, here’s a mashup of some basic knowledge from SuperKing’s posts and mine on GC.net (most of this is in the booklet of the game though…)

Notation: usually we used the numpad notation because it’s convenient and for buttons, about everyone serious about the game used the KRSG notation, KRSG meaning
?(K): Strike
?®: Grapple
?(S): Special
G: Guard

Btw, the common button layout is:
KRS
G

movement:

walk on 4 and 6

hops (or steppings if you prefer) using 66 and 44, dash being 66(maintained) as usual.

sidesteps on 22 and 88.

IIRC there’s a Tekken-like 180position change on 44G (on a sidenote, MG2 has corrected most of the weird camera angle/position changes from MG1/MAX)

Talking about guard:

guard on G

parry on 6G

grab tech-out on 4G
(once again, as usual parry/ungrab gives you some frame advantage to counter, albeit only a little)

Some characters have specific counters for a given throw. It’s performed with 4G like a normal tech out but has different effects (these specific counters actually come from the Kinnikuman storyline)

About running moves : in MG2, on top of the running strike (K while dashing) there is now a running throw (R while dashing)

Special throws:

every characters has throws specific to medium and heavy stagger, as well as a throw from behind and one when throwing a running opponent (like one irish-whipped into the ropes)

some characters also have alternate version of those and/or throw when the opponent has his back to the ropes or the corner

some characters also have air grabs that need to be input after any launcher either when the opponent is in the ascending or descending phase.

last but not least, all characters have a hammer throw, which most players refer to as an Irish Whip (if you don’t know what an Irish Whip is, just wikipedia it or something). It is performed by 4R and obviously throws the opponent running, hopefully to the ropes.

Tension:
The tension bar is what would be called a super meter in most other games, it can be filled up to 10

You can build up tension using 64S (like in the EXTRA mode of KOF or a DBZ game, etc)

Specials (anything that uses the S button, aside tension charging) consume tension (usually 1 to 5 bars), as do supers (9bars). Tension consumption ins specified in the movelists

Charge Cancelling. Often referred to as CC, it consists of cancelling tension charging. If timed correctly it can be used to extend juggles or even ground combos.

Activation is performed by pressing KRS at once, it acts as a GG burst and gives you specific advantages depending on the inner strength you have selected. The time of the activation is proportional to the meter you have when you activate. Supers can be performed for free during activation (but supers take a lot of time so activation is likely to end during it)

The Inner Strengths:
I won’t go into full detail but basically

Blue is offense-oriented, gives you a damage bonus when your life bar is flashing and activation allows you to string strikes by cancelling any strike into another normal or special strike (kinda like custom combos).

Green is Defense-oriented, gives you better recovery and you take a little less damage when your life bar is flashing. During activation you are immune to medium stagger, so basically you have super armor against most strikes.

Red is tension-oriented, makes you build up tension faster. Infinite tension gauge during activation.

–
Please please please DON’T tell me why you suddenly decided that I had to be a girl.

ok thanx for the info homie :woot: it is greatly appreciated…now i know this sounds stupid but how exactly do u stagger someone?is it universal for all the characters or do I have 2 go in training mode and find out on my own?

Festival6667 · October 20, 2008, 2:27pm

Thanks for the in-depth info on the inner strengths, umgogo, didn’t have either the time or courage to cover it completely (well, actually inner strengths also influence slightly the number of frames of recovery after hitting/guarding as well as the hitstun time. Unfortunately I don’t have any frame data -been looking for some for more than a year- but there are definitely modifiers, even if only a single frame or two)

…and I rather like the idea of using MS and HS as shortcut for Medium (hit)Stun and Heavy (hit)Stun

On a side note, I can confirm that

only back throws or special throws can be done from the back (back throws can be simple or command though)
only rebound throws or special throws can be done after an Irish Whip.

@fliper: Well, what I call stagger and what umgogo calls stun is the same and really is hitstun.

Medium hitstun:
Basically the opponent is in medium hitstun after

light strikes
short strike chains
CC’ed strike chains
strike chains in the ropes
(the ropes break the usual physics of hitstun, allowing longer chains without knockdown by keeping the opponent in medium hitstun even when long strings are performed)
Hits leading to medium hitstun only have the small kinda-tekken-like spark on contact.

Heavy hitstun:
The opponent is in heavy histun after

special strikes (I can’t recall any exception atm)
some command strikes
the last strike of a good share of hard-wired chains
Hits leading to heavy hitstun have a big, character-specific spark when they connect.
Outside of ropes and custom combos, any succession of two heavy hitstun will result in a knock-down. So after an opponent has been in heavy hitstun once, any heavy hitstun-inducing strike will knock him down, as stated in previous posts.

fliper · October 20, 2008, 4:16pm

Festival6667:

Thanks for the in-depth info on the inner strengths, umgogo, didn’t have either the time or courage to cover it completely (well, actually inner strengths also influence slightly the number of frames of recovery after hitting/guarding as well as the hitstun time. Unfortunately I don’t have any frame data -been looking for some for more than a year- but there are definitely modifiers, even if only a single frame or two)

…and I rather like the idea of using MS and HS as shortcut for Medium hitStun and Heavy hitStun

On a side note, I can confirm that

only back throws or special throws can be done from the back (back throws can be simple or command though)

only rebound throws or special throws can be done after an Irish Whip.

@fliper: Well, what I call stagger and what umgogo calls stun is the same and really is hitstun.

Medium hitstun:
Basically the opponent is in medium hitstun after

light strikes

short strike chains

CC’ed strike chains

strike chains in the ropes
(the ropes break the usual physics of hitstun, allowing longer chains without knockdown by keeping the opponent in medium hitstun even when long strings are performed)
Hits leading to medium hitstun only have the small kinda-tekken-like spark on contact.

Heavy hitstun:
The opponent is in heavy histun after

special strikes (I can’t recall any exception atm)

some command strikes

the last strike of a good share of hard-wired chains
Hits leading to heavy hitstun have a big, character-specific spark when they connect.
Outside of ropes and custom combos, any succession of two heavy hitstun will result in a knock-down. So after an opponent has been in heavy hitstun once, any heavy hitstun-inducing strike will knock him down, as stated in previous posts.

ok thanx

chopa · October 20, 2008, 11:09pm

MGP2 was ran as the final game for the mystery tourney
Buk got 2 wins with Snigator, Keits pulled one with The mountain.
Had no space for vids though.

Josh-TheFunkDOC · October 21, 2008, 12:17pm

This game looks SO fun, too bad I can’t play Japanese games though =/

chopa · October 30, 2008, 6:40am

Vid dump: old stuff from Kohatsu 2on2 and 2 1on1s
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3602714
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3610683
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3611089
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3620969
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3621313
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3621874
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3621947
Thats the end of the 2on2 ^

and a playlist for another 1on1
http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/8105451

ferlanga · April 13, 2016, 3:26am

I know this is long dead and nobobdy would come here, but theres a guide at gamefaqs for those that are interested.

Oddly enough, it seems in this game guarding is safer than parrying, but comes at the price of getting pushed backwards if hit with a heavy stun attack, which leads into a punish, and thats when you want to parry instead (you can also parry to punish attacks with long recovery, but it can be quite hard to guess)

Also, charge cancelling is an important tech in this game (basically linkng and attack into the meter charge animation, if the attack can be cancelled at all). This opens alot of things, like actually linking moves into lvl9 supermoves, better recovery on blocked/whiffed attacks, and helps cut combos at the attack you want to.

keo-bas · April 13, 2016, 7:40am

yeah when watching kohastu match video, you player doing stuff all the time

ferlanga · April 14, 2016, 3:41am

I can imagine someone with incredible reflexes at the controller can pull some amazing things, like cancelling super phoenix’s sidestep regular attack into cancel and so on.

Also, some notes on the KKD mentione in the FAQ:

-The near death and activation boosts stack with eachother

-Green KKD, when activated also allows faster ground recovery

-Red KKD on activation kinda allow custom combo-like usage of special moves.

Besides that theres two thing i like to bring up. One is to go from a dash into a f,f+punch move (usually a launcher) without getting a dash attack; you just press forward a third time after the dash.
This really helps in situations like when I use kinnikuman and I want to link a low kick+megaton punch into a shoulder launch into a juggle.

Second is not as useful but needed sometime. basically your character has a throw that can be done on the corner/ropes, but if hes in light/heavy stun you’ll get those throws instead. Only way to override this is to do a double motion (if its qcf+throw, you have to do qcf x2). No need to do this on context throws with motions like “f,f+throw”.

Theres two channels on youtube with high level play: DJCTYPE and ideon2000. Personally this videos feature better gameplay than most tournament videos, but they dont use the high tier characters much.

BTW, when I say light and heavy stun, I mean what others might refeer as mediumand heavy stun. I dont consider to be 3 tiers of stun because the lowest hitstun is barely considered hitstun and it depends more on the speed of your combo strings to say if the opponent can break out or not.

keo-bas · April 16, 2016, 12:16pm

were the 3 different grooves viable or did some became impractical?

ferlanga · April 17, 2016, 8:23pm

IMO, red might be the least popular groove. Building meter is already easy enough and combos for Red KKD depend on the character’s specials (akuma shogun spamming with special kick for examplem or mister khamen/pentagon with their lvl9 timestop combos)

Blue is a generous power boost, and that is good for everyone. the custom combos are character dependant, but the the boost in damage can turn the match.

Green could save your butt and leave you with that magic pixel of health. You could even survive a lvl9 special with the right amount of health left, plus the activation give more defense which stacks with the low health effect.