Doesn’t Sagat beat both Zangief and Honda 7-3? He can pretty much just throw fireballs all day and punish any attempt to get round them can’t he? My fireball zoning game SUCKS, I’ve never liked projectile characters in any game really. But if you ask me, a smart move for Guy players looking to counterpick would be to learn how to fireball zone with Sagat…as cheap and nasty of a tactic that may seem to Bushinryu practicioners lol
Oh right sorry, I was wondering why you would say Sagat is such trouble.
I gotta say he is a very different character to play, but if you know how to be patient (which I guess could come from advanced Guy players), then he’s the man.
Ryu I also feel is a good sub because he has the same sense of being versatile and somewhat mobile as Guy, but has a different element of footsies.
Guy and Ryu is like switching between a sword and a bow. Sagat is like a cannon.
Sagat is pretty much immobile. You’d have to learn the fireball game really well to get by. I find Akuma/Ryu easier to use.
I’d play a really lame game with Akuma against Honda and Zangief. The last time I was in a tournament, I was knocked out by a Gief player who I knew wasn’t as good as me. I thought about choosing Akuma the second game, and didn’t. Not making the same mistake again.
Only problem with that is Akuma is dead after like 2 SPDs and if Gief traps you in a corner, he can punish your teleport with banishing flat or if he has ultra 2, demon flip no longer becomes an option. I feel Gief can shut Akuma down very quickly if he gets any opening and would personally rather stick with Guy for that matchup.
Well yeah the corner is more or less death - but you can do a lot with Akuma in the neutral game and actually cause Gief to chase you. With Guy, Gief has no reason to chase him, especially if he has the lead. You can also use Akuma’s dive kick to actually jump in at the right angle, behind him. Guy’s jump and slide is pretty much forbidden in that match-up.
I’m talking about the true nature of the match-up. If you got crappy Giefs who can’t SPD on reaction to a blocked slide, that’s their problem. And if I won against a Gief “player” like that…I wouldn’t feel like I’m really winning cos I know what Gief should be doing there and then. Of course I would use the slide if they’re oblivious about the SPD.
Players that know the match-up will SPD on reaction to slide and crouch any time Guy goes in the air. If they see Guy elbow cancel the jump arc close enough, they’ll just lariat at the touch of 1 button and trade for ex hands followup and you’re in the grinder. You don’t even need high-level reactions cos it’s just the press of a button.
Gief’s cr. jab is a really good antiair against both normal and bushin flip elbow drops. It literally beats them clean. A well timed lariat will beat jump in HK, so I like to try and bait whiffed lariats by jumping in and elbow dropping as late as possible. But yeah…slide is a bad idea. Even at max possible range it’s -1 on block but still in SPD range, so you have the choice of back dashing (loses to banishing flat), jump back (loses to OS lariat after whiff banishing flat), neutral jump (loses to OS lariat after either whiff SPD or whiff banishing flat) or just hit a button and hope he doesn’t try to SPD you. LK tatsu is throw invincible, but if he just blocks that then you’re screwed. It’s a really horrible situation. I only ever use cr. HK slide for mobility or whiff punishing random banishing flats. Using it in any kind of offensive capacity is suicide if they know the matchup.
A side note just about Giefs in general. I find Guy players usually know the matchup better than Gief players, but if you play a Gief who knows all the ranges and frame data of Guy’s moves, then this match is like shooting fish in a barrel for the Gief player. It doesn’t matter how skilled of a Guy player you are, luck is a huge factor in winning in that situation. In that respect, I still personally find this matchup harder to win than Honda because you can outsmart and outplay even the best Honda players, but Gief is just a trainwreck at the highest level of play. Watch some WNF stream archives of Marq Teddy vs. Snake Eyez. Even when Marq does everything right, very few or no mistakes, plays the matchup perfectly…he still ends up losing. It’s a very disheartening matchup indeed!
This. And just to add, it was actually a Zangief player that finally pushed me to think of alternative characters to use, besides Guy.
You can’t hope to drain Giefs health with pokes and spacing. You have to get it right so many times to win. He just has to get it right once or twice.
i was messing around in training yesterday with guy mirrors. i was curious if this was already known. after the knockdown from runslide… i went for the safejump nj. fierce on guy’s wake up and it whiffed. i found out that if he’s in a neutral state… as in not blocking… not doing anything at all… the fierce will just whiff completely. i noticed it’s due to guy’s wake up animation. after he gets on his feet, he’s leaning over before he fully stands up as long as you don’t hit anything to cancel the animation(blocking… hitting a button).
if it wasn’t already known… this can be some really unorthodox tech in the guy mirror. especially if you know your opponent is OSing forward hurricane.
It’s not really a delayed wakeup, it’s just his hurt box is reduced. He’s still up on the same frame and conventional safe jump setups (like Ryu’s after a forward throw) still work. It’s more to do with the unorthodox hit box of the neutral jump HP. Try using LP instead if you ever find HP is whiffing.
So Guy’s LK tatsu is such a very under used and underrated move. Has throw and mid invincibility.
Here are the moves it will beat clean.
Honda’s normal headbutt from anywhere but pointblank, EX will only be beaten if its tatsu is active.
Rose’s soul spiral ALL of them, it won’t catch her back dash so it can’t be used as an OS all around so HK its still better off. Howver HK tatsu will catch her EX Soul throw and backdash but she may have time to punish you if she does ex soul spiral so cr.hk seems to still be the better OS tool.
Viper’s LP thunder knuckle.
Bison’s Psycho Crusher.
Some normals it will beat and of course all throws will lose.