So in other words, every character will have special with armor breaking abilities. What’s the point of parrying if you can’t parry a special move? Now if these ‘special’ moves requires meter (ie. ex move) … that would make a little more sense, but still seems as though parrying has lost its purpose in this game design. I don’t want to compare a game that doesn’t exist with a game that does, but at as an example, in 3S you can parry anything and be punished if your timing if off and still get hit by said super/ex move.
I’m taking it that if there will be ultra’s DURING the game, then despite the length of the ‘ultra combo’, it’ll suffer to damage scaling making the use of an Ultra and meter useless and will be nothing but a fancy, pretty looking, super move. Given that its unbreakable/parryable, during the match, requires meter… you can say that it is a comeback design as someone can perform an ultra at the beginning of their second health bar.
No, I was not basing my opinions on the SNES version, I was referring to the arcade version. The fact that lots of blood flies everywhere is a moot point and just makes the game look more silly. Blood does not equal gore, and Cinder’s fatalities are not gorey at all. Disintegrating into ashes or melting into a puddle is extremely Looney Tunes-like shit and not even close to the same level as MK, where you have Kabal ripping out someone’s intestines or Sheeva pulling all your skin off and leaving you as a bloody, fleshy skeleton. KI has never had anything NEARLY as graphic in ANY of its incarnations, console or otherwise.
Yeah I don’t know if you played SF4 but they employed a similar concept with Focus Attacks. Every character in the game has at least 1 special move that breaks Focus Attacks (Balrog has 2 I think), additionally some Ultras have the armor breaking property. I like this idea, it sort of falls in line with the Rock Paper Scissors priority of the previous KI games.
As far as 3s is concerned I think the way parry’s were implemented in that game were imbalanced and flawed. I don’t want parry’s to completely dominate this game.
So in this game parry will only be active on the first few frames, followed by about approx 1 second of punishable whiff animation. Parry’s can lead to huge damage but they can be broken in a few different ways so they won’t completely dominate the game.
Maybe you don’t remember but the original KI games had damage scaling as well, coupled with the fact that Breakers were pretty unrestricted in their use this made any long combos completely useless. High level play boiled down to short, unbreakable combos. My goal is make longer combos viable, but at the same time placing some restrictions (linkers and breakers requiring meter).
And yes I want Ultras to be activated not just during combos but outside combos as well. Yeah I suppose you could use it as a comeback mechanic, but the same could be said of supers in SF and Xrays in MK. But its more than just a comeback mechanic because the Ultra isn’t tied to a Revenge Gauge. You could be in the lead and use the Ultra to finish off your opponent. You can use it as a counter. You can use it to punish. Use it for whatever you want. As far as damage scaling I want a cap on how much your combos get scaled down, also thinking of making linkers reset the damage scaling or maybe even making Supers/Ultras immune to damage scaling…
So the way I imagine the game flowing is like this: in the first round both players have zero meter so they only have access to basic combos. In the 2nd round players will have more meter to play with, maybe even maxing out their meters if they haven’t been using any EX, Supers, Combo Breakers, etc so players have to think: should I go balls out with a phat combo or should I play more defensively. Final round we see if players have good meter management skills. Some people might be fully loaded, others might have blown there wad early lol. We should see some really interesting stuff happening.
Anyways I’m considering adding a separate meter for breakers similar to Burst Gauge in GG (Miyomei’s suggestion). This way you don’t have to choose between offense and defense, you can play both at the same time.
I feel like the finishers were pretty rushed and if they had more time to flesh them out they would have made them a bit more graphic. Basically a lot of the violence was implied. But I agree it was also tongue-in-cheek black humor. Which is what I’m going for with these finishers. As far as Cinder’s finisher the description was a bit brief so I suppose my intentions weren’t clear. I was definitely envisioning it as darkly humorous.
Imagine you see Cinder initiate his Ultimate, beats the crap out of Jago and then does a Trailblazer that passes right through him. Cut to side view of Jago as he stumbles back and then looks down, his midsection is smoking. Camera pans around and you see a perfectly round hole in his chest (not much blood coming out since the wound is instantly cauterized), through the hole you see Cinder standing victorious. Jago collapses just as Cinder does his victory pose, zoom in on Cinder.
I just don’t like the idea of fatalities at all, and I especially hate them when they’re trying to be funny. Since they’re supposed to depict characters getting brutally murdered I don’t like it when they try to present it in a humorous fashion. The way I see it, if you’re going to do fatalities, they should be downright horrifying and disgusting, otherwise you shouldn’t do them at all. Think of the fatalities from Manhunt and Eternal Champions. They should just be stone-cold horrible.
I prefer the idea of the KI characters turning their fatalities into MVC-esque super moves since they’re so over the top and not particularly gorey. Tusk summoning asteroids or Fulgore turning his head into a massive vulcan cannon strike me as spectacular moves to pull out in the middle of a fight rather than at the end of it.
I think I recall seeing news about “leaked” KI3 documents that talk about having more than two players, a 3D plane and camera tricks happening whenever a character is knocked out. I like that idea more, it sounds like Power Stone.
OK so you’re biased against fatalities. That’s fine. But KI has always been a violent game. Maybe you can try to ignore it but if you look at some of the game renders its pretty obvious that Rare was going for a more bloody and violent aesthetic but due to technical limitations of the day they weren’t able to achieve it in-game. At the same time they did have a dark sense of humor.
But the gore should definitely NOT be removed. That completely goes against the spirit of the series. I don’t want to turn KI into MvC or Powerstone. I want to maintain what makes KI unique.
I haven’t seen any leaked KI3 documents but other than the camera angles it sounds terrible lol. Kinda like MK’s awful transition into 3D fighting. We all know how that worked out.
Anyways you have Supers and Ultras and they aren’t particularly gory. So if you don’t like gore than don’t use the Ultimates.
Dhalsim didn’t have any moves that would could guard break… unless you counted ex yoga fire :lol:
Supers in SF isn’t a comeback mechanic (those bars are earned). Ultras and that damn x-ray attack are… because now days, developers are catering towards a more accessible audience and not the FGC.
Adding a special meter for breakers… why not use the meter for Ultra’s instead? I don’t like having meters/bars clustering the screen.
As far as the older KI games, I remember them quite well, but ultras did not have damage scaling… because it was only accessible during red blinking life/special ender… but if it did, there was no way to tell.
I really linked the linking system in KI2, but with it being universal, it made combos too easy for everyone to perform.
You’re not removing any gore; as I said KI has no gore to begin with. You don’t seem to understand what gore actually is. And I never played any of the 3D MK fighters so I assume their percieved awfulness has more to do with the inherent awfulness of the MK series as a whole rather than the addition of a new axis. I don’t imagine they would stay on a “characters standing facing each other” basis if they were going to have more than two players at a time.
XRays are not a comeback mechanic. You earn Xrays through offensive actions (chipping opponent, performing specials) as well as taking damage.
You right about SF Supers and the same is true of Supers/Ultras/Ultimates in my KI3 doc. They are all powered by a Super Gauge that is filled by both offensive and defensive actions, and the meter carries over between rounds. The only exception is Ultimates because you can only use it at the end of the last lifebar, but its still not a comeback mechanic because its powered by the same meter as Ex/Supers/Ultras.
I don’t like having a bunch of meters either but I think in this case its necessary. Anyways removing combo meter and adding a separate meter for Ultras doesn’t really help. I’d much rather have all of the “super” attacks tied to one meter (like KOF or SFAlpha) and having combo extenders (linkers) on its own meter (like KOF XIII)
OK sure burning people to death, gunning them down, and slicing off their legs below the knees isn’t gore. Whatever you say buddy.
2D MK’s are great. MK1-3, and MK9 are awesome. Series turned to crap when they tried to turn it into a 3D fighter, throwing out everything that made it great. Similar thing happened with SF EX.
A note on the chain system:
[LIST]
[]You cannot chain Q attack into Q attack. This makes hit confirming a bit difficult and demands you commit to a chain
[]F attack can be chained into Q attack
[*]Overheads can be used in chains but they lose their Overhead properties. But if you start a chain with an Overhead the properties remain the same (similar to KOF) i.e. Cinder’s QP, MK, f.FP can all be blocked crouching but f.FP, MK must be blocked standing.
[/LIST]
Super Attack
The current style remind me a lot of SF4 KI is more fluid(quick fights and no intervals between life bars)
IMO
super should be EX, instead of flashing getting some unique visual effects(cinder flames burn higher)
less sf more Vampire savior
Ultimate Combo
Is better spend your metter on other things
**Retaliation **
I only remember that Spinal could wake up teleport Parry
Holding Fierce or roundhouse back spinal(again) would absorb projectiles already
-Super Attack- Not exactly sure why you want EX and not supers, or what that has to do with the lifebars. This was something introduced in KI2 and I think its a good concept that will add a lot of depth to the game strategically. If I recall correctly in Vampire Savior you had “ES Specials”, which requires a portion of the Special gauge, and “EX Specials”, which require an entire stock of the Special gauge to perform, which is essentially a super.
-Ultimate- I think an unbreakable combo that will instantly end the match is probably worth it. Also you get to see a sick finisher animation.
-Retaliation- Everyone had a retaliation move. It worked similar to MK9. Certain moves gained extra invincibility frames. Jago’s DP and Cinder’s Flashkick were retaliation moves.
-Parry- In KI2 Spinal was the only character who didn’t have a parry since he had the Absorb ability.
I always liked the first one best so those stuff introduced on the second I didn’t know. Sorry 'bout that ^^
My point about the life bars was that KI is a game played a lot faster.
I wanted the supers to not slow down the game having you stop to watch animations for 8 seconds per fight for example [details=Spoiler] Human Fireball (Super) - QCFx2 P - Powered up Trailblazer that carries opp all the way to the corner then explodes. Air OK, UNBREAKABLE
It came to my mind Hondas ultra that’s why the idea in my mind
What would be the closest? [/details]
srry I have problem connecting ideas so it sounded a little bit confuse
Hell yeah someone make it happen! If that means Rare has to sell the IP to another company, so be it!
Ok I get what you mean now. So yeah supers in KI3 aren’t Ultras. Think of them as a step above EX specials. There’s no cinematic involved. Only the Ultra’s and Ultimates have cinematics.