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Hello G77,
Yea after EX tatsu there is about 3 options to do against rog, first is late crouch-tech if you are lower on health or if you want to be on the safe side, but ex rush will catch you so be careful. Second, if he has an ex-meter, do your cr.mk crouch tech which works perfectly and works even better if buffered with shoryuken, so you cover almost every option. Last and best option to do, and this is best when rog has no ex-meter is cr.lk on the first frame after recovering from the tatsu OS step kick,U2 or ex tatsu for backdash, it stuffs everything , grab and all other reversals or normals.

Also one more thing that might help a little bit sometimes, is if you get cr.lk as meaty as possible, u have enough time to recover and block an ex-headbutt ( this is after knockdown, ken must be facing rog’s legs )
I know this might not be too useful but i have uploaded a video on it long time ago, Here it is.
[media=youtube]nm5KMXxC5wI[/media]

202

Awesome!!

I really appreciated that video. I will definitely be using some stuff like that from now on!!!

G.

P.S.

I’ve never really put much thought into the early cross-overs to nullify back charge and I’ve just started to see possibilities for how we could abuse this to really screw with Bison’s wake-up options too…

If we were to tatsu over Bison, he would only have teleport, head stomp and devils reverse and if I’m right on this, we could theoretically do an OS ex tatsu and at worse everything would whiff?

I can’t remember whether or not Bison can punish an ex tatsu on whiff…

Peace,

G.

203

Am glad i could help, and by the way i meant the first option is late crouch tech, Lol sorry am a fast typer so i tend to eat up some of my words while typing, I edited my post.
I have actually tried the crossover on other charge characters and i saw no reason to it, since OS srk beats bison and honda’s reversals.
A reason why i think now my video is not too useful , is you can cross-up/ambiguous jump-in Fierce OS sweep to beat all of his options, but he will get away if he headbutts. ( Source : [media=youtube]wPGe-cW0aXM]YouTube - [Monster’s Arcade[/media] )…
Notice at 00:53 when banana ken did a kara throw. Look at his OS sweep beating ex dash punch. Also at 1:40 i believe he did it but sweep didn’t come out, then when he did the jump-in mk i guess it was only to mix it up.
Credit goes to banana ken on this one:china:.
I might do the corssover trick once in a match against rog, if i saw that he already responded to j.hp OS sweep with FA backdash once or twice.

EDIT:
Ok so i decided to contribute a bit more on OS’s against balrog, and explain all of the option selects in more details. I will try to write up every OS i know about on each character whenever i get some free time. ( I’m sorry guys, but i never had the time to read this whole thread, this is why am not sure whether most of the things i want to say are known or not, that’s why i will try to read everything written here).

Ok so the things that brought me to thinking that crossing balrog over with L.tatsu or jump after a throw is a good idea are:
First of all i discovered that against Guile if you walk a tiny bit back after a throw, and then J.lk and he flashkicks, it will stuff some versions of the flashkick, and LK and EX would auto-correct, but ken will land infront, which gives ken a free punish with ultra or any high damaging punish. ( again, i don’t know whether this was already known or not. ) So i tried to do this against balrog, the result was that if he does an EX dash punch he will auto correct in the wrong direction same as guile, but the j.lk will be absorbed which gives ken a very narrow time to punish it, and the worst part is if balrog headbutts, it auto corrects and HITS ken, so i tried adjusting the spacing by moving a little more distance, and then doing the J.lk, this will cause the headbutt to whiff, BUT ex dash punch will hit you, so i thought the crossover was the best option, period. Then after watching banana ken’s video i thought Damn how did i forget about J.hp.

Btw guys, no1 mentioned an OS after back throw, well i have one. It’s not actually an OS so am not sure if this should go the match-up thread ( I personally think that this thread is more alive than the matchup thread ) the only situation i would use backthrow against rog is if i see an EX rush whatever coming at me from full screen and throw while holding back, anyways here is the full setup:
After backthrow, standstill and do a really meaty Lp.hadoken and once you recover do cr.mk Buffer shoryuken, maybe u need to do one jab to get a perfect timing on the meaty hadoken, but here are the outcomes:-
Rog headbutts any headbut : whiffs and leaves you to punish:devil:
Rog ex punch : cr.mk > srk beats it:badboy:
Rog backdashes : hadoken hits him:badboy:
Rog ultra or super :nono:: the flash eats out ken’s cr.mk.

204

Yeah but doing an OS’ed DP against Bison is still a massive risk.

If he has no meter, he’s gonna teleport or backdash, so obviously you don’t want to worry about it there.
If Bison has meter, he has so many escape options that it’s a gamble (and an educated guess) as to what he’s gonna do.

With meter, Bison has these escape options:

EX Psycho Crusher
EX Scissors
EX Head Stomp
EX Devil’s Reverse
Teleport (multiple types)
Backdash

So doing an OS’ed DP will beat:

EX Scissors
EX Psycho
EX Devil’s Reverse
EX Head Stomp

But it loses to teleport and possibly backdash too.

Of course, if Bison is in the corner, you can OS the DP with no real risk at all, but mid-screen, that teleport is always a massive risk as it will give him an opportunity to do a fairly nasty punish.

BUT

If you cross him over like in your vid, you can remove EX Psycho and EX scissors from his options and these are the only 2 wake-up options he has to punish an OS’ed tatsu (be it hk or ex), so in theory, you can OS the tatsu, knowing that even if he escapes with something other than teleport, the situation is just reset.

Obviously this will all depend on whether or not a whiffed ex tatsu is safe if Bison goes for the EX devil’s reverse. I was fairly sure he can’t punish you for it, but I’m not 100% certain.

So to sum up. If you throw Bison mid screen, there could be a strong argument for crossing him over to limit his options to escaping at best and eating a tatsu at worst.

If he’s cornered, then the OS’ed DP becomes much less of a gamble and you wouldn’t really want to cross him over and put your self in the corner anyway.

Awesome stuff on the Guile match-up and great Rog tips.

Any chance you can explain the jump jab technique you mentioned against Guile? This has me intrigued!!!

Peace,

G.

205

Thanks bro.

There is always an option to j.hp OS kara mp.srk, to add backdash to the OptionsToBeat list, but i have no idea what it does to EX stomp, because as you know, option selects are different if you sit it on Record, and if you do it yourself, so the outcome is unknown to me. If you have someone to test with you, tell me the results!
And by the way, Bison can run away with EX devils reverse> instantly cancelling it to that other floaty move i forgot its name, and runs away Or hover away from the mp.srk and land on it to punish, i remember a bison doing it to me, my jaw dropped.
I always love the idea of guessing the OS on bison though, good fun.

Sure bro! Anything for the ken army :karate:, already posted in the match-up thread.

206

I’ve been practicing the following combos and was wondering if there were any downsides to the OS’s i have in it, other than the extra execution.

cr.short (OS crouchtech), st.jab (OS step kick for backdashes), cr.fierce (plinked for jab if too fast),/xx fierce srk

cr.short (OS crouchtech), cr.jab (OS sweep for backdashes), cr.fierce (plinked for jab if too fast),/xx fierce srk

I believe the OS’s for backdashes aren’t really useful unless I’m using this string meaty on wake up pressure, but I figure I might as well get into the habbit of using it all the time if it doesn’t hurt, better for muscle memory.

207

There is no downside, and its really great to learn it, everyone must insert some OS in their meaties. You don’t need to OS crouchtech because meaty cr.lk beats grab. cr.lk>cr.lp is a true block string so they can’t dash in between, but i get it, you’re doing it if they backdash from the cr.lk. But bro i think most opponents prefer playing footsies and frame traps against your cr.lk instead of backdashing from it, but as you said it doesn’t hurt! And it might come in handy if somebody really did backdash while playing footsies.
Also remember to get you’re meaties when the knocked down opponent is facing you with his legs, not head. Just now i was playing online casuals with my friend, he mains rufus. I was like what the heck i’ll try meaty-ing him while he’s waking up, facing me with his head, and my cr.lk whiffed and he neutral jumped away from it, and my sweep came out and he punished me hard. Am not saying its impossible, just too hard, might go for corssup shenanigans better when you’re opponent is facing you with his head ( after throw knockdown) .

208

I’m being a bit lazy with this question but I’m at work and I have been having a rest from SSF4 lately (back on the Halo: Reach this week).

I’ve put this question in here because I see it as a “hole” in the OS gameplan.

What is the counter to people who like to use moves with armour and/or Focus Backdash as their wake-up escapes??

In my opinion, Ken has so many good options on his opponents wake-up that as I progress through this game, I find less and less opponents who are willing to try and just block my wake-up jump ins.

Now I am quite happy with OS’ing regular back dashers and OS’ing to outprioritise reversals, but even when I know what my opponent is going to do to escape, I can’t work out the best way to punish focus back dash and armour moves.

I know that this is quite character dependant, but am I missing something simple here?

What are everyone’s thoughts on this?

Peace,

G.

209

Walk up throw but they can be osing there focus with techh throw then bakdash.so if u throw they tech if u dnt throw they focus bakdash.but if they get predcitble then chuk ex fireball or just throw or maybe let them focus n bakdash then hit them?maybe walkup then fowardd jump lol.ken needs a two hittn normal so bad

210

Wow lilsixc i never knew people could FA+OS tech x_x… That’s sick high level shit!
@ G77
I just tried my best to find an answer for FA backdash, and i failed miserably, there is no answer except for reacting to it and punishing it.

Anyways, here is something for the ken army:-
OS against blanka when he’s cornered:
1.Meaty cr.lk> cr.lk/lp/mk/mp/hp Depending on how meaty the cr.lk is, OS cr.hp. Cr.hp beats rainbow ball ( credits to daigo :rofl: ), up ball is punishable on hit in corner, all other options are stuffed by the meaty, but be careful of ultra, you can anticipate when blanka would ultra on wake up by his EX meter, health, and which ultra he’s picking, and his level of play.

2.Meaty cr.lk>jab OS U1. U1 beats rainbow ball too, you would get full animation depending on how meaty the cr.lk was, i have managed to do it in training mode and noticed that i got fake U1 when i didn’t hit the cr.lk as meaty as possible.

OS on blanka after kara throw, walk back then safe jump hp or hk, i dunno why but i see hk working better against blanka OS ex tatsu, unfortunately this OS loses to up ball, its punishable on hit with step kick, but its not a good trade. So the safest OS mid screen after throw is:
J.hk/hp> hold down back and delay cr.lk so it combos at the last possible frames of hit stun. By this you block up ball, and the meaty safe jump stuffs other options, and cr.lk continues the combo, he can escape with backdash tho.

I apologize if this OS was mentioned before. I didn’t read the rest of the pages of this thread.

211

Sik oses but I honesstly think u shouldn’t be takn those risks on blanka.the corner shit is legit but the other shit ain’t wurth the risk to me

212

Hello everyone,

I just thought of something, while doing my essay homework an idea came to me, Lol.
What if we late OS crouch tech+ sweep on ryu/ken’s wake up since they have 3 frame dp? Instead of late crouch tech > jab+ sweep OS?
i think this OS blocks dp, sweeps backdash, techs throws, blocks normals, and it feels smoother. Because sometimes i automatically do the the late cr.tech> jab+sweep and when they wake up and hit me with a jab and they stop their block strings, sometimes my sweep comes out. I think its better to do it in one press of 3 buttons. I didn’t try it though.
thoughts anyone?

213

Wake up jab will beat it.

214

Interesting OS playerjun52 used against blanka to keep him pinned down in the corner.

[media=youtube]ts5fEoiCbYk]YouTube - Playerjun52 [Ken] vs T SRAI [Blanka[/media] - Starts at 2:33, once he had him in the corner he OS crouch tech, then lp+hp. This completely stuffed rainbow ball and he was able to maintain pressure. Hands down one of the best matches I’ve seen with Ken Vs. Blanka. So watch the whole video!

215

Yeah, Daigo has been doing that, albeit with Ryu… it’s been mentioned in this thread already. But yeah, good shit, always like seeing playerjun’s ken.

216

OP should update the first post. Somebody needs to start organizing all this information.

217

k k, i will update original post REAL soon. gimme a few days. sorry guys.

218

hi folks, so i’ve decided i will make a new video each week. i will make a video on option selects against each character. first one up is Abel (alphabetical order). can i get some brainstorming please? what are some good option selects against Abel?
thanks!

219

From Guiseppe1’s post in this very thread:
Link to original Post

I searched the whole thread and those seem to be the only Abel option selects mentioned. Hope it helps! =/

220

C.lk os kara throww it beats roll bakdashes and wakeup regular combos throw loses to. Ex command throw