Ken Match-ups Thread: "Strong fighters such as yourself make it worth staying in shape!"

Street Fighter V Ken
101

The only reason I’m disagreeing so much on DP being a read rather than a reaction is because IALL isn’t super fast, and Chun has to be at a specific range to use it, so I think just keeping it in mind at that range and reacting is really plausible.

It’s like Nash being able to moonsault or shimmy after pressing a button. You can AA the moonsault easily because it’s so distinctively different from what else he’d be doing, and I feel like Chun’s IALL is the same.

Whatever works though. I’m just being anal personally because cr.mp can trade and I’d rather win that interaction cleanly.

102

I’ll be honest, I mess up the autocorrect DP like 95% of the time and always get the cr.mp lol.
But now that you mention it, it DOES still get the job done.

103

I never said that it was a read and not a reaction.

104

What is Ken’s strategy vs. Zangief? I’m asking as a Zangief player and trying to help my friend figure out the match-up. What works well for you guys here?

105

What do you guys do vs. sandbaggers that mash jab? Especially Ryu. Frustrating as hell.

106

Frame trap them.

107

After fooling around with some people I’ve found that shimmy st.mk into hk works pretty well for punishing this and tech mashers.

108

If they are mashing jab on their wakeup you can make them pay with a meaty s.rh or s.hp cc combo.

109

frame trap into either st.mk or b.mp where possible, it’s where you’ll get damage from. meaty st.lp > b.mp always works for me, or cr.mp shimmy back into st.mk to beat their lights.

110

Throw fireballs when gief thinks you’re playing footsies. AA consistently. Bully his buttons with yours. S.hk is really good in the mu. dash forward grab is good if he v-skills trying to absorb a hit. Pressure the dick out of gief when he’s knocked down.

111

Everything he whiffs his Haymaker fierce with armor, if ken is used to seeing it then it’s easy to whiff punish with st.hp into step kick or v skill into tats if you’re close enough

112

Do all of us already agree Vega is a bad MU for Ken? I don’t believe there’s anything as bad as a 6-4 in SFV. I would label it 5.5-4.5. Just played a long set with Kelvin Jeon.

I’ll keep it short, Vega just wins the neutral, forces Ken to play a kinda hit and run game. (Zone until knockdown) Vega’s back walkspeed is fast enough that mid screen, he can avoid shimmy/throw/frametrap mixups by simply holding back. Ken doesn’t have much to stop him from doing this except checking him with cr.mk or hard read sweep.

It’s not that bad at all, it’s just one of those MU’s that I know I’m at a slight disadvantage.

EDIT : I can elaborate if you guys want aswell, I learned a lot from our sets.

113

I find Chun to be worse because she can do the same as Vega but with wake-up game, a 3f jab and better up-close pressure. Vega doesn’t feel advantage, but the disadvantage feels ever so slight.

I still think Ken’s worst match-ups are between Bison and Chun.

114

Exactly, it’s very slight. Interesting, I’m more comfortable playing against Chun. Stand jab against her works wonders, however it doesn’t against Vega. I think one thing about Vega that definitely differentiates his game from Chun is he has a command grab with no claw. It’s amazing paired with his walkspeed. He can stand perfectly outside your tech range and still be able to grab. Which sets up his nasty shimmy game, similar to how Chun sets it up with IALL. It’s rough cause he gets to do what Ken wants to do, you can definitely say the same for the Chun MU also

115

Kinda figured out a semi solution for people who like to walk back during your pressure game

116

Only reason I say the Chun match-up is so bad is because I’ve had a chance to play from both sides, you can perfectly neuter everything Ken can do in the neutral if you stand just outside of her cr.mk range and walk in and out of it. You can react to fireballs with cr.mp, you can AA with b.hk/st.lk, you can poke with st.mk and walk forward IALL to start pressure. Ken is forced to bulldog, he can’t whiff punish cr.mk effectively, even counter poking it is difficult. You end up being resorted to a jump, or dash-in button, the fireball game can work but if Chun can react with cr.mp at the correct range that also becomes an unreliable strategy.

Still it isn’t terrible, 6-4. If Ken forces his way past the space Chun wants and forces her to backpedal she’s in the corner in no time. When Chun is in the corner match-up switches on it’s head, 6-4 Ken.

117

@MochaLatte Is it low forward confirm into tatsu? Specifically ex tatsu. You have quite sometime to confirm it once cr.mk hits. Still relatively hard at high-level though.

@Froztey I agree on all points, Ken just needs to take a ‘stalker-like’ approach and walk Chun into the corner. Like Gief did in usf4 or Ken can fish for the whiff punish corner carry similar to Dudley in USF4. Maybe the only 6-4 MU Ken has at this stage. But even then, MU numbers should be taking with a grain of salt. It’s so easy to get blown up in this game for small defensive errors.

118

If you could low forward into tatsu and confirm off that one hit it would be ridiculous, i don’t know if that’s possible. Maybe react to them stand blocking and check with a low forward into tatsu.

If you manage a hk tatsu ender and follow up with a meaty (or at least somewhat meaty) cr.mp then there’s a decision tree to go off of based on what you think their defensive habits are.

IMO we have to start treating cr.mp like b.mp in the sense that we should be confirming off of the first hit before we decide to follow up, mostly due to its unreliability to combo into b.mp on hit now. So hear me out, and this is ridiculously hard to do (for me at least) but I think it’s worth the grind

So if it hits, you have to confirm into st.lk into H Shoryu/mk tatsu/ex tatsu

But on block, if you already commit to the st.lk then you’re not really in a good position. So reacting to the block you can do a bunch of different things

Walk forward for a 2-3 frames and hit st.lp into cr.mk, st.lp combos in cr.mk on counterhit and the lowforward cancelled into mk tatsu connects.
So you have to react to the st.lp counterhitting before commiting to cancelling low forward into tatsu. If the defender is just walking back, then after blocking the st.lp they will get checked by a low forward. Cancelling low forward into fireball at this range is safe. Not canceling low forward puts you at the perfect range for a st.hk or a dash up throw. You can even wiggle a bit here and whiff punish a button with st.lk into shoryu, throw lk out and buffer, don’t hit hp while buffering until you saw their button come out. Hell you can even cancel low forward into v skill. You’re also able to cross up tatsu from here and mix it up with jumping HP for a left right mixup. Regardless, all I know is that after they block the low forward or not during this sequence it puts Ken right in the sweet spot.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_i7ZC6-0HY

Walk forward and throw (or walk forward, shimmy then blow up tech attempt)

If you’re feeling ballsy and you know for sure that they’ll just be walking back after blocking cr.mp then you can really walk forward for awhile and then go cr.lk cr.lp chain hit confirm into Hp shoryu, ex shoryu, ex tatsu or even CA.

Or on block (I can only do this if I’m already holding back) then you can go for b.mp and confirm… off of one hit

For me, I think it’s worth investing the time into since it won’t really be effective unless it’s 100 percent ingrained into muscle memory.

119

@MochaLatte I feel like the b.mp confirm after cr.mp is better, if you’re at the range for it. Outside of that range the neutral is so amorphous and vast depending on MU/ situation/ etc, that it’s a bit hard to compartmentalize a tree of options after any button, cause you’ll want to do different stuff situation by situation.

120

Except for when b.mp whiffs after cr.mp on hit, this is why chris t and julio just go for st.lk. Basically whiffs 90 percent of the time if you’re short one pixel or if it’s a counterhit. Starting at st.lk on hit is a good place to start before differentiating between normal and counterhit, until then I’m only hitting b.mp if I want a tight frame trap after cr.mp is blocked. If you already have the reflexes to react to counter-hit/non counter-hit that way then go for it

I’m not trying to “compartmentalize” all of the options after a button, I’m just making suggestions. If anything all I’m saying is that it’s important to confirm off of cr.mp before committing to a certain frame trap or whatever since it keeps your options open.