Some more of my Beta matches from yesterday. Well, one half at least:
Got a lot of things to work on…weak approach, inconsistent anti-airs and my pressure game is really weak right now. At least I don’t feel completely lost in neutral, unless it’s against Birdie at the moment.
I didn’t have much time to play this beta, but from the few things i got to try Ken is better than i thought. The pushback reduction to his cr mp is really, really important, dash cr mp -> TC and anti air -> run -> cr mp -> TC now work reliably again. The mk tatsu change was another good point, because it’s so versatile. You can opt for damage, pressure or corner carry depending on your resources and the state of the round.
Still, i think one of the reasons he felt effective is that most people still do too many stupid stuff. The most stupid thing you can do vs Ken is jump at him. He has the best antiair in the game and he is the only character that can generate pressure at the same time. I mean, Nash has a natural advantage in this MU with his normals and blockstrings but most Nash players are still going for moonsault pressure vs Ken. It’s practically a free cr hp CC to damage and pressure. Likewise, most people still don’t know when to press buttons against Ken, or how to punish some stuff.
In the long run, i do think that cr mp being +1 on block will hurt him, since this is the button you want to start your pressure with. I also think he will have problems vs all the good footsie chars, till he can get them in the corner that is. I am really curious to see how his final version will turn out to be.
I don’t know if it’s just me but I couldn’t juggle with fierce srk after light tatsu when I used stand fierce into tatsu, it would only work after cr hp, lp, cr mp, don’t think I tried stand mp or back mp
I would really like kens stand roundhouse to be buffed, that move has potential, but it’s very hard to utilize at the moment.
Do it super late, I kept doing it too early and just running into their face.
I started use run to go under jump ins and bisons stomp lol every time I see it i run and I go under.
I also like using run after cr fierce anti airs it throws them off some time. I always test run into throw to see if my opponent knows that it isn’t safe, I do it a couple times scattered.
I used medium DP until a Ken I faced that was super strong and had some insane LP did cr.hp - run against me, I incorporated it into my anti-air game afterwards and started getting infinite pressure against most people. It’s really strong, Ken easily has the best anti-air game in SF5.
And I liked to go cr.lp cr.lk, confirm those two hits and if block go into st.lk and either cancel into run - throw or frame trap st.mk. Worked like a charm against most people, after that I’d start doing shimmy into st.hp for people who anticipated the run cancel. Ken’s options are actually really interesting considering most of it is just conditioning.
My most hopeless matchup was chun, I felt like my only option was to gamble on a jump in with her, and against really good chuns that’s a big mistake.
It was between Karin/Chun/Vega for me, I also had a little trouble with Bison later on in the beta.
Chun’s cr.mk feels impossible to deal with, you don’t really have a capable whiff punishing tool and counter-poking it is pretty scary because of the looming EX Legs buffer.
Karin’s EVERYTHING felt hard to deal with, her standing and crouch medium kick and sweep are just ridiculously hard to fight, I don’t even think you can do anything to counter her sweep other than jump it.
And any good Vega just bodied me, I felt like most of my options were stripped.
It’s not just the timing, some times the pushback from the st hp is too much and the srk doesn’t reach. The only way to be sure it connects is to run cancel the st hp and link into the lk tatsu. That way you are always close enough to connect with hp srk.
You can whiff punish Karin’s sweep with Ken’s, the problem is that she can bait the punish with cr mk and make you whiff your own sweep. I feel dirty for saying this, but vs Karin Ken has to jump when she doesn’t have meter.
Isn’t this purely because they decided to nerf his SRK’s forward momentum?
I thought I was the only one. I tried sweeping it and thought I had tagged it but her leg retreats far too quickly; unlike her st.mk she doesn’t really leave out a hurtbox to tag. Our cr.mk is stubby with a longer lasting hurtbox and cr.lk/st.lk feel like they’d also fail due to the priority system. Best I could do was a fireball to whiff punish.
They’re hard to fight but unlike Chun’s cr.mk her hurtbox lasts for a while so you can tag them with a jab or a short to keep her honest. A good read on a st.mk can lead to a cr.mp whiff punish to an EX tatsu buffer for good damage and reversing momentum back in your favor.
As for her sweep…like her st.mk and cr.mk her hurtbox lasts for a while so it’s reasonable to whiff punish it.
Nah I imagine any Ken struggled to beat that Chun cr.mk, it’s seriously strong. It seems to be an anomaly compared to the rest of the low forwards in the game considering how it works as it’s fast, recovers quickly and her hurtbox doesn’t seem to linger at all. I just couldn’t whiff punish it at all, if you’re late on the reaction then you’ll probably eat another cr.mk or something worse.
I heard Karin’s sweep was super unsafe, just didn’t feel it at all. How many active frames does it have? It looks like it stays active for quite a while, I doubt a spaced sweep will be -14.
It was like this in beta 3 as well, the lk tatsu must connect point blank in order to allow a hp srk juggle. Cr hp cancels early and that’s why you are close enough, st hp doesn’t so you need to run cancel it. Besides, you should prefer to run cancel it anyway, the corner carry is half a screen this way.
Karin’s sweep is -7 on block and spaced correctly can only be punished by ex srk (st hk start at 13 frames btw). Ken needs to hover just outside its range when he plays vs her which is hard since she has a better walk speed.
Oh. Thought I read -14 somewhere. Guess I must be mis-remembering.
As for st.hk I thought it was 14 as when I frame-counted it, the opponent goes into the damage animation on frame 14. But from the frame before the hit is shown to the frame that the hit is shown, Ken’s st.hk stays on the same frame of animation…so hits register one frame before they actually show a hit? That’s weird.
St hk is full of weird properties. Btw, i checked the frame data and Karin is indeed -14 on block but i’d tried punishing it with st hk in training and she could always block.
[EDIT]
Nevermind, i just saw that her sweep used to be -12 in beta 2 which is probably when i was checking optimal punishes vs her sweep. St hk should indeed work now.
good stuff @ smashingme
I think Ive played vs you in phase 3
Karin’s sweep is -14, you can punish it with st.hk VTC if you’re in range
Anyone have any footage of Momochi’s Ken in SF5?
Seems that’s not the reason for my number. When I frame counted, this is what I got:
http://i.imgur.com/mjIxles.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oGrweMs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/p3svWUv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0Ozeciu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6T3QszS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gUvJjRh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IZjXvqq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YsUw3UI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ld590du.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kn5kVgD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TlA8qeu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pbKTg1W.jpg
Checked the other moves from Ken and all of them are 1 frame off from the frame data others have (I was getting 6 frames for cr.mp when it’s 5, and 5 frames for st.lp when it’s 4), so I guess hits aren’t registered visually on the first frame of contact. Will keep this in mind for future frame counting in this game.
Ken sure does plant his foot weirdly on that st.hk animation, suprised he isn’t toppling over upon connecting it.
