Ken General Thread: Go with the Flow

Street Fighter V Ken
1281

Ken doesn’t have anything fancy, like Ryu’s old Denjin Setups off a Crush Counter Sweep, or Chun’s instant-overhead. The only thing he has really going for him are his resets after his Crush Counters or air EX Tatsu, and high execution, but low reward combos. Amongst the cast, he has a very diverse and unique tool kit. Specifically, his V-Trigger: it ups his combo game, and can be used for pressure. I want to make a point that his damage is poor compared to the rest of the cast, even with high-execution V-Trigger combos; he desperately needs a dmg buff. I highly doubt there’s anything in my video that is “game-breaking” or deserving of a nerf for Ken. If anything, I want to highlight his flaws, and the areas he needs improvement on. For instance, Ken cannot land a CA after the first hit of his 3rd Shoryu, due to the nature of CA’s juggle points. He cannot EX shoryu his 3rd uppercut for the same reasons, it will completely whiff the opponent. Ken cannot even maximize his damage after a highly-executed combo…

I’m glad they patched Ryu’s Denjin set ups as soon as they could. His whole meta game would have been centered around this single setup for his V-Trigger. There was simply too much reward for a single counter hit sweep.
Ryu’s EX tatsu -> EX shoryu in the corner dealt a ton of dmg, and if Ryu was fully stocked, he had enough meter for EX fire ball for continuous pressure or EX tatsu to beat grabs. This made Ryu’s corner pressure insane, so this nerf is justifiable.
Same goes for Chun’s instant-overhead: this tells me that Capcom is really trying their best to make SFV as fair and less gimmicky as it could be

And btw, have you guys seen Floe’s Laura video? He discovered some pretty insane cross-unders. Two guesses and you’re down 50% of your HP. It’s pretty crazy… Now that’s deserving of a nerf if u ask me…

1282

Nah I like a fresh game that updates enough to keep the game fun yet still balanced. The extent of any nerfs is likely the only issue that can come up but this is why Capcom needs to make sure to make a proactive approach instead of the typical reactive approach that most game devs have these days based off of a fringe group in the community.

1283

Technically, Ryu should still have the setup regardless of the Sweep CC change, because that only affects IF he cancels Sweep directly into V-Trigger (to “be” safe). If he commits to sweep and then do Low Strong whiff into V-Trigger (with Crush Counter Sweep taking place), you got the perfect setup ready already… you just couldn’t do something that made you “safe”.

The issue with Ken CA is more-so of the juggle point system rather than the velocity of when the opponent goes high in the air. It’s testable if you were to time 2nd juggle of DP where the opponent is really high in the air.

1284

Yeah, I like that Ryu can still go for unblockable fireball setups, but one that is “safe” is a bit much… Not even 3s had “safe” denjin setups, you could parry the hits and live to tell the tale. and since crush counter sweep guarantees a hard knock down, unblockable fireball was guaranteed 100%, that’s going overboard.

and you just validated another one of my points: if Ken was in fact able to combo CA after his 3rd shoryu by “timing” his 2nd juggle, it just goes to show that you need extreme execution to even land a CA after the 3rd juggle… which is not worth the risk. But I can assure you that timing his 2nd juggle would not change a thing. For his 3rd shoryu to even connect, you need to land his 2nd shoryu at the exact frame that Ken lands. This is essentially a 1f link (2 frames thanks to the new combo system).

1285

Where I’m getting at is that his Critical Art would be impossible to land after his 2nd DP during/after “recovery” (includes super cancel from 3rd DP in this case)… regardless if they made it easier to time it. Nothing to do with how hard you have to execute due to how high they fly in the air to land them realistically, since it’s impossible unless they alter juggle point stats on the Critical Art itself. It’s similar to why EX DP doesn’t work either, because they both lack the juggle point stat to juggle that Fierce DP fortunately has (which is the most).

1286

I see, I get what you’re saying. So basically, 3rd shoryu (first hit) -> CA should work, but due to the nature of CA’s juggle points, it won’t, making it seem like the first hit launches the opponent too high up… In every other instance, like close L. Tatsu , H. Shoryu (first hit) -> CA, the combo would work. But it won’t after the 3rd Shoryu. Interesting

1287

I saw some cross over shit and no way that’s working unless they back dash. If you are talking about him using the f+hp, hp. Shit has.long start up after the cross under he can get hit out easy.

Mix it in with her grabs though MAYBE,if the person tries to backdash instead of jump.

1288

59:55 mark (looks like you could jab out of the cross-under -> Fierce punch, but she could still meaty with mids)

his setup was f+hp, hp, and then V-Trigger , punch for reset, V-Skill forward to cross-under if I recall. He had some fancy meaty EX fire ball into cross up set ups too, which I’m sure more Laura’s will use in their pressure game

some of Floe’s cross-unders left Laura at an advantage, she could meaty you once she gets behind, which forces a block, or otherwise risk a correctly-inputed reversal. Either way, it’s still in Laura’s favor. She could command grab if she reads a block, or she can do an over head, or low. It’s mix up heaven for her. On top of that she has a ton of damage, so a correct guess rewards her a whole lot.

On his stream, he made it sound super Godlike. I might just be jumping the gun here, assuming it’s overpowered or wtv… it does require V-Trigger…

I would imagine back-recovery could shut down her cross under mix up altogether, I might have to test this out in the lab

1289

I guess the Fear factor kicked in when I saw this video, a new character we know next to nothing about, and it’s very easy to jump to conclusions. I’m totally cool with cross-under set ups if it requires V-Trigger. It’s a not a free mix up by any means. I’m inclined to say that this may be part of her game, close up pressure and high reward for correct guesses. I’ll just have to play more matches against her when SFV hits shelves on Feb.

I’ve optimized my Ken combos, now I’m ready… just praying he gets atleast a dmg buff on his execution-heavy combos, and fix the juggling properties of his CA and EX shoryu

1290

Like I said it can work, but he set it up of a slow command normal that you can’t even combo into with a deep jump in.

That being said I was messing with similar stuff, using the medium attacks will net you a lot of success in theory. We will see though next month when it drops.

1291

Nothing in that video is remotely nerf worthy. A cross under that can’t leave her in front is not scary. It has to be a 50/50 where she is at advantage on at least 1 side to possibly be scary. That f. FP he does after the cross under is not nearly fast enough, he very obviously could be poked out of that. Laura has got some cheapness, but an in fighter needs that or they won’t be any good. Nerf’s is literally the last thing anyone should be asking for in this game at this point.

1292

Floe exaggerates a bit. Either for the sake of hyping things up or whatever other reason. He would use the word “broken” to describe Claw’s f+HP being a CCH and such.

1293

That isn’t scary and/or broken at all, it’s an obvious cross-under and the “100%” route can just be poked out of probably with any strong button.

1294

Yeah, fear factor got me. Laura’s mix up is definitely not as OP as I originally thought. Floe has a way of saying things that get people hype when it comes to new tech, i almost fell into the “nerf” trap

1295

Cool, i found a nice hit confirm off a CC s. HK

s. HK (CC) , V-T, Triple shoryu (corner only)

1296

so can we make a list for the most damaging combos? just correct me if you found a better one so i can update

COMBOS

No V-Trigger No Meter:

Jump In Fierce -> cr. MP -> b. MP -> s. HP -> Heavy Shoryuken or HK Tatsumaki (310 Damage/450 Stun for Shoryuken 310 Damage/480 Stun for Tatsumaki)

***No V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar:

Jump In Fierce -> cr. MP -> b. MP -> s. HP -> EX Tatsumaki (322 Damage/480 Stun)

**No V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar Corner:
**
Jump In HP Punch(late) -> cr. HP -> EX Hadouken -> Light Tatsu-> Heavy Shoryuken (340 Damage/535 Stun)

***No V-Trigger 2 Meter Bar Corner:

Jump In HP Punch(late) -> cr. HP -> EX Hadouken -> Light Tatsu-> EX Shoryuken **(382 Damage/595 Stun)
**
No V-Trigger 3 Meter Bar:

Jump In Fierce -> cr. HP -> Heavy Shoryuken -> Super (490 Damage/365 Stun)

V-Trigger No Meter:

Jump In Fierce -> cr. HP -> Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HK -> Light Tatsu -> Heavy Shoryuken (374 Damage/591 Stun)

V-Trigger No Meter Corner:

Jump In Fierce -> cr. HP -> Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. MK -> HK -> Light Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken (397 Damage/604 Stun)

V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar:*
**
Jump In Fierce -> cr. HP -> EX Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HK -> Light Tatsu -> Heavy Shoryuken (401 Damage/616 Stun)

V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar Corner:

Jump In Fierce -> cr. HP -> EX Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. MK -> HK -> Light Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken (424 Damage/629 Stun)

**V-Trigger 2 Meter Bar:
**
Jump In Fierce -> cr. HP -> EX Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HK -> Light Tatsu -> EX Tatsumaki (409 Damage/616 Stun)

V-Trigger 3 Meter Bar:

Jump In Fierce -> cr. HP -> Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HK -> Light Tatsu -> Heavy Shoryuken (3Hits)->Super (515 Damage/567 Stun) <<========================================================Highest Damage Combo

CRUSH COUNTER COMBOS

**Crush Counter st. HP No V-Trigger No Meter:
**
b. MP -> HP -> Heavy Shoryuken or HK Tatsumaki **(287 Damage/421 Stun for Shoryuken 287 Damage/456 Stun)
**
***Crush Counter st. HP No V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar: *
**
b. MP -> HP -> EX Tatsumaki **(301 Damage/456 Stun)
**
***Crush Counter st. HP No V-Trigger 3 Meter Bar : ***

Heavy Shoryuken(2 Hits) -> Super (459 Damage/270 Stun)

Crush Counter st. HP V-Trigger No Meter:

b. MP -> Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HK -> Light Tatsu -> Heavy Shoryuken (344 Damage/588 Stun)

***Crush Counter st. HP V-Trigger No Meter Corner:

b. MP -> Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. MK -> HK -> Light Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken **(367 Damage/571 Stun)
**
Crush Counter st. HP V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar:

b. MP ->EX Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HK -> Light Tatsu -> Heavy Shoryuken **(371 Damage/583 Stun)
**
***Crush Counter st. HP V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar Corner:

b. MP ->EX Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. MK -> HK -> Light Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken **(394 Damage/596 Stun)
**
**Crush Counter st. HP V-Trigger 2 Meter Bar:
**
b. MP ->EX Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HK -> Light Tatsu -> EX Tatsumaki **(379 Damage/603 Stun)
**
**Crush Counter st. HP V-Trigger 3 Meter Bar:
**
b. MP -> Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HK -> Light Tatsu -> Heavy Shoryuken(3 Hits) -> Super **(485 Damage/534 Stun)
**

***Crush Counter cr. HP No V-Trigger No Meter:

Medium Tatsumaki -> Heavy Shoryuken **(256 Damage/372 Stun)
**
Crush Counter cr. HP No V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar:

Medium Tatsumaki -> EX Tatsumaki (272 Damage/412 Stun)

***Crush Counter cr. HP No V-Trigger 2 Meter Bar Corner Only:

EX Hadouken -> EX Shoryuken (309 Damage/475 Stun)

***Crush Counter cr HP No V-Trigger 3 Meter

V-Run -> Light Shoryuken -> Super** (462 Damage/315 Stun)**

***Crush Counter cr. HP V-Trigger No Meter:

Medium Tatsumaki -> Heavy Shoryuken -> V-Trigger -> Heavy Shoryuken (328 Damage/422 Stun)

***Crush Counter cr. HP V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar:

Medium Tatsumaki -> Heavy Shoryuken -> V-Trigger -> EX Tatsumaki (340 Damage/452 Stun)

Crush Counter cr. HP V-Trigger 2 Meter Bar:

Couldn’t find a better than the non V-Trigger one

***Crush Counter cr. HP V-Trigger 3 Meter Bar:

Couldn’t find a better than the non V-Trigger one

Crush Counter st. HK No V-Trigger No Meter:

V-Run -> Light Tatsumaki (late + 2 hits) -> Heavy Shoryuken **(235 Damage/350 Damage) **Pretty hard combo not recommend it V-Run into Heavy Shoryuken has 1 damage less

***Crush Counter st. HK No V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar:

V-Run -> Light Tatsumaki (late + 2 hits) -> EX Shoryuken (291 Damage/430 Stun)

Crush Counter st. HK No V-Trigger 2 Meter Bar Corner:

EX Hadouken -> EX Shoryuken **(309 Damage/475 Stun)
**
***Crush Counter st. HK No V-Trigger 3 Meter Bar:

V-Run -> Light Shoryuken -> Super (462 Damage/315 Stun)

Crush Counter st. HK V-Trigger No Meter:

V-Run -> Light Shoryuken -> V-Trigger -> Light Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken (350 Damage/476 Stun)

***Crush Counter st. HK V-Trigger 1 Meter Bar:

V-Run -> Light Shoryuken -> V-Trigger -> Light Shoryuken -> EX Shoryuken (356 Damage/505 Stun)

***Crush Counter st. HK V-Trigger 2 Meter Bar Corner:

EX Hadouken -> Heavy Shoryuken -> V-Trigger -> EX Shoryuken (379 Damage/515 Stun)

***Crush Counter st. HK V-Trigger 3 Meter Bar :

Couldn’t find a better than the non V-Trigger one

Bonus Crush Counter cr. HP V-Trigger(no V-Run):

Wait till opponent is in air -> Heavy Shoryuken -> V-Trigger -> Light Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken -> Heavy Shoryuken (287 Damage-307 Damage varies depending how far you carry him in the corner/373 Stun)

Bonus 2 Full Corner Carry

Neutral Jump Fierce -> cr. HP -> Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HP -> V-Run -> Light Tatsu -> Ex Tatsumaki (372 Damage/611 Stun)

1297

st. HK can’t be canceled, possible typo?

Is this the combo you’re referring to?

Jump-in Fierce -> cr. HP -> Hadouken -> V-Trigger -> st. HP -> V-skill -> L. Tatsu -> HP shoryu {368 Damage / 591 Stun}

Edit: Got it, it’s a linked St. HK to tatsu, very nice combo

1298

St.Roundhouse can link to Short Tatsu. There are other options outside linking that, you can just Low Fierce xx Short Tatsu since it’s the same damage/stun values. St.Fierce does less damage so not optimal.

1299

S.HK links to light tatsu? You learn something new everyday. Is the timing strict?

1300

Tested mid-screen, Fire ball -> V-Trigger -> cr. HP -> L. Tatsu, the kicks only hit once and cannot be followed up with HP shoryu. You’ll need to spend a meter for EX shoryu for it to connect.

If you spend the meter for EX Fireball -> V-trigger -> cr. HP -> L.Tatsu will now be a guaranteed juggle

Edit: if you walk an inch forward during the hitstun of fireball after V-Trigger activation, you’ll be close enough for a cr. HP -> L. Tatsu juggle