not sure if this has been discovered in the beta yet
also ddissa I see what you mean now by cr.lp cr.lp cr.hp to bait crush counters but that seems to only work if someone presses something dumb like medium normal reversal or something
I see a lot more jab mashers in the future, kens st.hp seems like a really good tool for whiff punishing karins mashed jab right now in training. You can set it up with a number of different options at different ranges and confirm it into knockdown.
Well thing is people are going to be mashing something agaisnt ken,
Ff you put the opponent on block and you do a reversal jab.
Then you win if you tick throw with stlp, crlp and crlk( if they are spot on youāll lose tho).
So i think itās really important that you throw them right away to setup your game, and youāre at an advantage after the f throw.
I think its better if you get that st.hp in, because you can setup pressure with the v-skill during their hitstun. Itās potentially more risky, but I feel like Ken needs to be risky with his heavy moves in order to out footsie characters.
im not talking about crush-counter with st.hp obviously, I mean when you whiff punish something. If you get crush counter just go for his combo. But I think you can set up several whiff punishes with his st.hp in this game against certain characters.
Iāve just tested another thing, to elaborate on your whiffpunishing.
If you do the st hp just let the vskill rip, after you him them with the vskill you can dash up and do a meaty, so far it always comboās after the sthp.
Even in footsies you can use the stepkick and most of the time if it isnāt super max range you can get the meaty off ^^
Btw can someone explain the concept of when you are able to hit a crush counter? Because sometimes i land a normal counter with chp and then at other times i land the crush counterā¦ is there a method to it?
Target Combo 1: back mp -> st hp. Since itās very negative on block, you have to confirm the back mp before committing to the st hp follow up. Practise it from max and closer distances because the possible follow ups differ. If you connect from max distance you cannot juggle with hk tatsu, but the mk tatsu keeps the opponent enough in the air for ex srk to connect. If you are closer, the juggle wonāt work so you can still go for a mk tatsu and get a setup or got for hk tatsu for damage and corner carry.
Cr Hp is very disadvantageous on block, if the opponent doesnāt press anything you will get a full punish. The only way to make it safe is to cancel to ex hadoken.
Those are too loose and only work when the opponent blocks. If he doesnāt your buttons will whiff. You can still take advantage of them if you have quick reactions but the main issue is the 6 frames gap between st lk and cr mp that loses to any light and many mediums. Similarly, cr mp, cr mk have a 5 frame gap that loses to lights.
If the opponent quickrises he rises before you reach him with a dash even if you perform it intermediately. The only finishes that guarantee frame advantage to Ken no matter the rise timing of the opponent are mk and hk/ex tatsu.
No those are comboās for frametraps, I cant instantly react to the ch message so i need another button let my brain register and those button will link and still combo
I get that but they are interruptable by mashing light attacks. You wonāt get a CH, you will simply get hit.
To make myself more clear:
Those obviously are attempts to get a ch on the 2nd hit and confirm to a combo. If the 2nd hit connects, due to pushback, the 3rd will whiff so no confirm. If it gets blocked, the next button will be interrupted because of the big frame gap.
Iāve tested these with cpu doing reversal jab after guard, if the first button is blocked the second hits CH and then you can confirm into the rest that is stated. Iāve tested these and they workā¦
Or am i missing something?
btw you are aware that you can setup quickrise and wakeup situations right? because it feels like youāre saying that i didnātā¦ I wouldnāt post this stuff if i didnāt tested it https://youtu.be/KqsIJXZxFGM
Set the dummy to block the first hit and counter hit to on. The only strings that actually work are the 2nd (due to TC) and the 4th one. If they all worked for you, you might have tried them on a character with a different hurtbox (or you had the opponent crouching which increases his hurtbox). I usually test for generic stuff vs Ryu/Ken.
[EDIT]
Another thing that works against your frame traps is that very few opponents will try to mash when they see a light attack. They will either wake up with a button or attempt to mash after a medium is performed. So if you start with light attacks, the more probable button to connect with a ch no less is the first one you pressed.
Itās reasonable to crouch block when waking up but in V you should not remain crouching after the first hit. You are out of range for a low chain to special and you can interrupt the same stuff with a st jab. You also have to take into account that if they attempt to tech a tick throw they will be standing as well.
You are right about the srk pressure though, itās a change from the betas i didnāt think to test.
I did some additional testing on what you can do with whiff punishes. It seems like b.MP has some interesting properties.
Scenario, Ryu doing st.MK. Everything is still proof of concept and pretty shaky.
b.MP buffered to HP Hado xx VT seems to work from all ranges where b.MP would hit the limb(?).
st.MP buffered to HP Hado xx VT does not combo from all ranges where st.MP would hit the limb(?).
b.MP > HP target combo also works at a very, very specific range. Seems to be ~spacing perfect and ~timing perfect, so probably not worth usingā¦
Actually, it is pretty consistent, but thereās strict timing in between the link. You have to do it the moment that crMP connects. Ryuās st MP into crHP works the same way. I donāt want you to think Iām saying that itās easy to do because Iām using something in place of it (until I get the timing right), but it is a consistent thing.
So guys, iāve been playing with meaty st hp and it has the potential to be broken. If you connect it on the last active frame itās safe on block, +6 on hit (you can link a cr mk or do run -> back mp), while on CC itās just nuts. You can actually connect a run -> cr mp -> TC1. The main issue is that you can only reliably go for it with a CC sweep, but iābe been trying to make it work from an air reset (like cr hp -> run). If the cr hp hits early enough it should work.
b.MP HP target combo is unsafe, so naturally on block , you might wanna cancel it into EX Hadouken to make it safe if they donāt take the frame trap bite.
But interestingly enough, if you delay an HK Tatsu cancel after it, it acts as another frame trap. Itās something I put in there to make them hesitate next time I do an unsafe b.MP HP. Though the best option is to just learn to hit confirm that b.MP, itās still a fun little trick.
For me, cr.MK max range canceled into hadouken is a funny frame trap, though you obviously canāt get extra damage off of a counterhit.
If you land a cr.MP after a forward throw as a counter hit (or any counterhit cr.MP at that), you can link a super after it.
