Azrael
67
Yeah, that’s the thing - you either have to pick up on your opponent’s tendencies or train them. My approach is that I’m going for elbow unless they prove to me they know it’s coming and they’re willing to risk jabbing or DPing out of it. Once I see that I’ll go for palm or back dash and that’s where the mixups really get potent. s.hk x V-Trigger, c.mk x Guren Ken, elbow, c.lp, s.mp, Guren Ken blows up a lot of button presses. I get a lot of mileage out of that alone.
Once you start incorporating that kind of stuff, her other options become a lot more viable as well. The opponent is trying to figure out if you’re going to elbow or palm and you hit them with the cross-up elbow or Ressenha.
She is taking risks but that’s just part of the game. I think the game designers wanted to avoid Akuma vortex-like low-risk high-reward set play.
Nuts
68
Looks like my observation that Justin was using Meioken to speed up the that V-meter gain was on point (02:43):
https://youtu.be/CeoPD0s7WG0?t=2m44s
Azrael
69
Me and Justin Wong on similar pages here? My goodness. I totally agree that most Karin players aren’t bullying as much as they could be with her.
I played Chun in SF4 and she didn’t have much high-level representation. So this is great for a change.
Naeras
70
This set of Mago vs Wao just popped up in my youtube-feed, thought it’d be nice to share here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zEtQnjntgw
Crazy cross-under tech + damage output from this will be more than any 2-meter combo will ever do. Keep in mind this is a reset/mixup but its very rewarding!
Obviously when you want to pull off a reset you’re going to have to use it when you think your opponent is expecting it the least. Very good for online. Use it sparingly for long sets in battle-lounges & versus to keep your enemy nervous/guessing. Here are some real scenarios you could pull off:
Hit Confirms with Ex-Orochi (Requires 2 Meters):
Your standard hit-confirm
Cr. M. Punch > St. M. Punch > Ex-Orochi (enemy crumble) > St. H. Punch > Ex-Command Dash (cross-under & reset) > Cr. M. Punch (meaty) > Cr. M. Kick/St. M. Punch > Fast Tenko > Fast Tenko
If they’re too far for St. M. Punch here is the alternative
Cr. M. Punch > Cr. M. Kick > Ex-Orochi (enemy crumble) > St. H. Punch > Ex-Command Dash (cross-under & reset) > Cr. M. Punch (meaty) > Cr. M. Kick/St. M. Punch > Fast Tenko > Fast Tenko
If they have fireballs (Ryu, Ken, Nash, Guile, etc) on reaction
Ex-Orochi (under the fireball + triggers their crumble-animation) > St. H. Punch > Ex-Command Dash (cross-under & reset) > Cr. M. Punch (meaty) > Cr. M. Kick/St. M. Punch > Fast Tenko > Fast Tenko
If you have V-Trigger available, you’re about to obtain some more hardcore damage & pressure
Like all the combos above they provide a more safe-route to opening the enemy up by hitting them with a hit-confirm to their feet. The combo here is very safe since you’re using V-Trigger whether or not this combo is blocked or hit! Which makes it very ideal & safe option if you have V-Trigger!
Maximum Orochi, Ex-CrossUnder/Reset, V-Trigger Damage
Cr. M. Punch > Cr. M. Kick > Ex-Orochi (enemy crumble) > St. H. Punch > Ex-Command Dash (cross-under & reset) > St. H. Kick (meaty) > V-Trigger > Walk a little bit > St. H. Kick > St. H. Punch > Fast Tenko > Fast Tenko
Want to see it in action?
Nice thing about the video is it displays key-input and shows total damage per combo & compares them individually at the end!
https://youtu.be/iZb6DCC2ubM
Naeras
73
Shine uses those cross-unders quite often. He also gets a lot more mileage out of them than he should, to be honest. It’s very easy to react to if you’re aware that the reset might be coming. And really, there’s no sense in not looking for the reset, since you’ll essentially face either a reset or HK Mujin once you get hit by EX orochi. Furthermore, you can just watch her meter to determine whether or not she’ll cross under.
Basically, it’s a nice shenanigan. It’ll kill a lot of people who don’t know the matchup for sure, but it’s a lot worse against people who know how to defend against it. Of course, against an opponent who knows about the cross-under you can use it to set up throws very easily, since they’ll be focusing on blocking the cross-under.
Ya I have to agree with that, a lot of people will be looking out for it and for those who are looking for it won’t be looking for the tic-throw. Its nice to see this adds another layer of fear into the enemy. We saw Justin Wong in Dreamhack last week throw 3 Ex-Command Dashes in one match and it shows that people will be looking out for it. At the same time, it all comes back down to the guessing game. What kind of avenue of attack will Karin players use with this tech? Not sure, its up to them to decide. You do point out some good points, especially the one where you can setup a throw. In my opinion even if they see this setup coming, a meaty is presented in their face and the Karin user on reaction can tic-throw or hit-confirm into huge damage. Is it worth the meter investment? With the proper conditioning, the right timing, and the ability to check if the user is ready for it allows you mentally prepare more approaches!
Personally I’m not a fan of that reset. If you want to, midscreen you can do the jab reset with whatever>EX Tenko [w/e>EX Tenko>step>whiff st.LP/cr.LP>cr.LP>LK cmd dash], which at least allows you to get on either side. Its true that the EX Orochi setup does a little more dmg/stun, but it completely telegraphs which side you’ll be on. And I found that Justin Wong was mostly using EX command dash to get through projectiles/close the gap/or even cross under someone when they jump, he rightly wasn’t using that meter for shenanigans.
EDIT: @OutstandingMoon Also you can get more damage by ending your example combos with tenko>orochi instead of double tenko, and ending with tenko>gurenken instead of double tenko when you have VT. Still, you can get meaty from the jab reset, which additionally allows you to end up on either side, so I really don’t see any reason to use the EX Oro reset. The EX Oro reset is also legitimately a day 1 shenanigan that’s lost all its surprise factor. And you can’t combo cr.MK>EX Orochi, nor can you link st.HK>st.HP. You may want to revise that before throwing it over the subforum
https://youtu.be/iGgnFjYicqs
I found a corner mixup with her. It’s not much because it only works on those who use back recovery. Criticism is more than accepted here.
https://youtu.be/oZBML5uwaMM
A match a recorded yesterday after taking a long break from the game to finish up the Madden season. Working off the rust
d3v
80
Was able to save the recording of Justin vs Gamerbee at the grand final of Manila Cup since it was my console that was used for the stream.
https://youtu.be/939E4xQ0yog
Good Afternoon SRK,
I am a Karin main who’s game has been struggling a bit. There are two ranked match sets that I played yesterday that left me feeling very frustrated, as I felt that I could have played much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsyzR31xTkU
In the video above, there is a ranked set against an Ibuki player that starts at 1:40, and a ranked set against a Guile player that starts at 9:50.
In the Ibuki match, I felt like I backed up and gave up too much ground. However, with the way that the Ibuki player was pressing buttons, I felt as f I had to, so I could wiff punish her attacks.
In the Guile match, I felt a bit dumbfounded, as I felt as if I was unsure of how I was supposed to play against a Guile that was content to just crouch, throw Sonic Booms as I walked forward, and blocked all of my pokes.
Thank you to anyone who could assist me!
In the Ibuki match I thought you played pretty well but there were definitely a few things you could have done better. Your overall game plan against her is a good one, staying back and whiff punishing her inferior buttons in neutral is a good strategy. You also AA’ed well I thought. The biggest thing I noticed is that you don’t seem to have just frame tenko down. You gotta get that 100% down because you’re giving up damage every time you touch your opponent. Also, you did a bunch of tenko’s on block and that’s a big no no since that leaves you in your opponents face at - 10. So I’d say just work on your execution a bit and maybe a bit more situational awareness like punishing sweeps and going into orochi instead of tenko if they’re blocking.
Thank you very much for taking the time to provide me with feedback and advice HeavensCloud! You’re absolutely right about going Tenko’s on block, and I do know better than that. Sometimes when I’ve been playing for a while, my hands start to get tired, and Orochis start to turn into Tenkos, as my hands can’t quite move to down on the controller.
Here is something that I posted in another thread that I would like to share here, as I feel that this is something that could help players of any fighting game and players of any skill level:
“Sometimes, I can grow frustrated if my attacks are continuously blocked, and it can make me less willing to attack, as I fear that the attack could just get blocked. However, I remembered that it can be important to make your opponent block an attack, as the push back that it creates can both guard your space and push your opponent outside of a zone or space that he or she wants to occupy.”
So I have been having a rough go of things recently. While I have had some good moments, I have had many more bad moments online. In addition to making mistakes such as missing punishes or accidently inputting a Tenko instead of Orochi, I feel like I am dearly missing something in the neutral game. In others words, I am losing, and I don’t quite understand why.
Here are some recent matches:
Vs. Ken (starts at about 9:25):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXyuIkTWm_k
Vs. Cammy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szoe5FYzoRM
Vs. Akuma (starts at 3:50) and Vs. Balrog (starts at 10:10):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=timrdrBlmrc
Vs. Akuma:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFHaqDbfQI8
Thank you to anyone who can help me. I really, really enjoy this game, and I am tired of getting my butt kicked and not understanding why.
Hi Capmaster,
I am just a noob Karin (my rank is just super bronze), so my mindset or knowledge maybe just crap but this is my thinking after watching your match (I only watch the vs Cammy match)
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Lack of dash in/out in neutral game and after combos or sweep, so you gave your opponent a room to breath and they can take the momentum back after that. Further more, lacking of dash also leads you to a bad habit: You jump too many times when trying to close the range. At this point, you can watch Punk or Justin Wong matches to see how they control neutral game and how they dash-in after a combos or atk like sweep.
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Lack of left/right mix-up after jab anti-air. You always be in the same side and never dash under or try to bait reversal, so the opponent can ex reversal or just block your atk without fear.
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Too many c.HK. In the 2nd match, I feel you’re frustrated with too many c.HK at the beginning of the match. After successful sweep, you didn’t pressure with meaty or safe jump setup.
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And of course, dropping combos or missing punish may lead to a bad result.
Btw, your Karin is billion times better than mine. Watching your match, I know i have a lot of things need to do with my Karin to reach your level.
Hello fellow Karin players, I just wanted to share a few recent Ranked Match videos of my Karin:
Vs Urien:
Vs. Zangief (1):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Vgwz86IiU
Vs. Zangief (2):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy1Er3WFUtY
