Karin General Thread: Elegant offense for a more civilized age

Hawkingbird · September 21, 2015, 3:38am

Projectjustice:

Muttonman:

Projectjustice:

Why are people complaining about missing moves on a game that isnt even complete yet? Do some of you even understand what the word balance means? This is why I dont post as much lately, its neogaf up in here. ugh

People are chatting about how a character used to be and how that sort of move could be useful in the SFV engine and that’s what gets your panties knotted up? Not the threads filled with waifu pleading, not the 09er baiting, or even the “this game is going to suck” “this game is going to be the best ever!” back and forths?

It’s a forum. People use it for talking about stuff relevant to the game. I don’t think anyone has said that Karin needs a counter move to be strong or that she’s OP or UP or what have you. They’ve been discussing mechanics and flavor, tactics and setups. If that somehow doesn’t fit in a thread about a character then I don’t know what the fuck you want.

Im not talking about everyone, im talking about those complaining about her having less moves. Thus why I said why dont some of you understand the word balance. Complaining about missing moves from a character cause she had it in SFA3 makes no sense. SFV is not SFA3 or vice versa. Now if someone ported SFA3 to PS4 for example and some of Karin’s moves were omitted than it would make complete sense to complain about it.

I don’t give a fuck about balance. Balance is heavily skewed in some of my favorite games. Didn’t stop them from being both good and fun. Also your line of reasoning is flaw. It’s perfectly OK for Ryu, Chun-Li and Cammy to retain their moves unchanged from Street Fighters past but not for Karin?

Saitsu · September 21, 2015, 3:41am

Hawkingbird:

Projectjustice:

Muttonman:

Projectjustice:

Why are people complaining about missing moves on a game that isnt even complete yet? Do some of you even understand what the word balance means? This is why I dont post as much lately, its neogaf up in here. ugh

People are chatting about how a character used to be and how that sort of move could be useful in the SFV engine and that’s what gets your panties knotted up? Not the threads filled with waifu pleading, not the 09er baiting, or even the “this game is going to suck” “this game is going to be the best ever!” back and forths?

It’s a forum. People use it for talking about stuff relevant to the game. I don’t think anyone has said that Karin needs a counter move to be strong or that she’s OP or UP or what have you. They’ve been discussing mechanics and flavor, tactics and setups. If that somehow doesn’t fit in a thread about a character then I don’t know what the fuck you want.

Im not talking about everyone, im talking about those complaining about her having less moves. Thus why I said why dont some of you understand the word balance. Complaining about missing moves from a character cause she had it in SFA3 makes no sense. SFV is not SFA3 or vice versa. Now if someone ported SFA3 to PS4 for example and some of Karin’s moves were omitted than it would make complete sense to complain about it.

I don’t give a fuck about balance. Balance is heavily skewed in some of my favorite games. Didn’t stop them from being both good and fun. Also your line of reasoning is flaw. It’s perfectly OK for Ryu, Chun-Li and Cammy to retain their moves unchanged from Street Fighters past but not for Karin?

Or Birdie/Nash/Mika/Vega/Bison?

Maxman · September 21, 2015, 3:47am

i think that there must have been a reason as to why she lost some of her moves

usually Capcom ain’t the type to strip down moves of returning characters

I think that they must have experimented a version with her having access to rekkas and counter without v-trigger and found out that she would be too good in this engine ?

Could be for balancing reasons I think

Muttonman · September 21, 2015, 4:01am

Maybe they ran out of room on her card…

But yes, I’m not put out by her not having her counters anymore despite liking them, and rekkas behind the VT is odd but I’ll roll with it. The bitching and counter bitching going on here is childish though. I’ve now got three characters I’m super interested in playing in SFV which is pretty nifty.

So any updates on what links we’ve seen? We know for sure that cr.mp goes into itself, st.mp, and cr.mk with all of those being cancelable I believe. Then we’ve seen Rekka RP link into cr.lk and cr.lp. I think I’ve seen cr.lp into cr.mp, but that’s still up in the air

Projectjustice · September 21, 2015, 4:21am

Hawkingbird:

Projectjustice:

Muttonman:

Projectjustice:

Why are people complaining about missing moves on a game that isnt even complete yet? Do some of you even understand what the word balance means? This is why I dont post as much lately, its neogaf up in here. ugh

People are chatting about how a character used to be and how that sort of move could be useful in the SFV engine and that’s what gets your panties knotted up? Not the threads filled with waifu pleading, not the 09er baiting, or even the “this game is going to suck” “this game is going to be the best ever!” back and forths?

It’s a forum. People use it for talking about stuff relevant to the game. I don’t think anyone has said that Karin needs a counter move to be strong or that she’s OP or UP or what have you. They’ve been discussing mechanics and flavor, tactics and setups. If that somehow doesn’t fit in a thread about a character then I don’t know what the fuck you want.

Im not talking about everyone, im talking about those complaining about her having less moves. Thus why I said why dont some of you understand the word balance. Complaining about missing moves from a character cause she had it in SFA3 makes no sense. SFV is not SFA3 or vice versa. Now if someone ported SFA3 to PS4 for example and some of Karin’s moves were omitted than it would make complete sense to complain about it.

I don’t give a fuck about balance. Balance is heavily skewed in some of my favorite games. Didn’t stop them from being both good and fun. Also your line of reasoning is flaw. It’s perfectly OK for Ryu, Chun-Li and Cammy to retain their moves unchanged from Street Fighters past but not for Karin?

My point is proven.

Zebster · September 21, 2015, 4:45am

Whoa there, NOTHING? Going a little far there don’t you think?

MarLonLonMilk · September 21, 2015, 4:54am

Saitsu:

Hawkingbird:

Projectjustice:

Muttonman:

Projectjustice:

Why are people complaining about missing moves on a game that isnt even complete yet? Do some of you even understand what the word balance means? This is why I dont post as much lately, its neogaf up in here. ugh

People are chatting about how a character used to be and how that sort of move could be useful in the SFV engine and that’s what gets your panties knotted up? Not the threads filled with waifu pleading, not the 09er baiting, or even the “this game is going to suck” “this game is going to be the best ever!” back and forths?

It’s a forum. People use it for talking about stuff relevant to the game. I don’t think anyone has said that Karin needs a counter move to be strong or that she’s OP or UP or what have you. They’ve been discussing mechanics and flavor, tactics and setups. If that somehow doesn’t fit in a thread about a character then I don’t know what the fuck you want.

Im not talking about everyone, im talking about those complaining about her having less moves. Thus why I said why dont some of you understand the word balance. Complaining about missing moves from a character cause she had it in SFA3 makes no sense. SFV is not SFA3 or vice versa. Now if someone ported SFA3 to PS4 for example and some of Karin’s moves were omitted than it would make complete sense to complain about it.

I don’t give a fuck about balance. Balance is heavily skewed in some of my favorite games. Didn’t stop them from being both good and fun. Also your line of reasoning is flaw. It’s perfectly OK for Ryu, Chun-Li and Cammy to retain their moves unchanged from Street Fighters past but not for Karin?

Or Birdie/Nash/Mika/Vega/Bison?

Also that Cammy doesn’t have her air throw and Ryu’s Joudan Kick is still absent.

Hawkingbird · September 21, 2015, 5:03am

Projectjustice:

Hawkingbird:

Projectjustice:

Muttonman:

Projectjustice:

Why are people complaining about missing moves on a game that isnt even complete yet? Do some of you even understand what the word balance means? This is why I dont post as much lately, its neogaf up in here. ugh

People are chatting about how a character used to be and how that sort of move could be useful in the SFV engine and that’s what gets your panties knotted up? Not the threads filled with waifu pleading, not the 09er baiting, or even the “this game is going to suck” “this game is going to be the best ever!” back and forths?

It’s a forum. People use it for talking about stuff relevant to the game. I don’t think anyone has said that Karin needs a counter move to be strong or that she’s OP or UP or what have you. They’ve been discussing mechanics and flavor, tactics and setups. If that somehow doesn’t fit in a thread about a character then I don’t know what the fuck you want.

Im not talking about everyone, im talking about those complaining about her having less moves. Thus why I said why dont some of you understand the word balance. Complaining about missing moves from a character cause she had it in SFA3 makes no sense. SFV is not SFA3 or vice versa. Now if someone ported SFA3 to PS4 for example and some of Karin’s moves were omitted than it would make complete sense to complain about it.

I don’t give a fuck about balance. Balance is heavily skewed in some of my favorite games. Didn’t stop them from being both good and fun. Also your line of reasoning is flaw. It’s perfectly OK for Ryu, Chun-Li and Cammy to retain their moves unchanged from Street Fighters past but not for Karin?

My point is proven.

You didn’t make a point at all. You complained about people complaining.

Projectjustice · September 21, 2015, 5:55am

Hawkingbird:

Projectjustice:

Hawkingbird:

Projectjustice:

Muttonman:

Projectjustice:

Why are people complaining about missing moves on a game that isnt even complete yet? Do some of you even understand what the word balance means? This is why I dont post as much lately, its neogaf up in here. ugh

People are chatting about how a character used to be and how that sort of move could be useful in the SFV engine and that’s what gets your panties knotted up? Not the threads filled with waifu pleading, not the 09er baiting, or even the “this game is going to suck” “this game is going to be the best ever!” back and forths?

It’s a forum. People use it for talking about stuff relevant to the game. I don’t think anyone has said that Karin needs a counter move to be strong or that she’s OP or UP or what have you. They’ve been discussing mechanics and flavor, tactics and setups. If that somehow doesn’t fit in a thread about a character then I don’t know what the fuck you want.

Im not talking about everyone, im talking about those complaining about her having less moves. Thus why I said why dont some of you understand the word balance. Complaining about missing moves from a character cause she had it in SFA3 makes no sense. SFV is not SFA3 or vice versa. Now if someone ported SFA3 to PS4 for example and some of Karin’s moves were omitted than it would make complete sense to complain about it.

I don’t give a fuck about balance. Balance is heavily skewed in some of my favorite games. Didn’t stop them from being both good and fun. Also your line of reasoning is flaw. It’s perfectly OK for Ryu, Chun-Li and Cammy to retain their moves unchanged from Street Fighters past but not for Karin?

My point is proven.

You didn’t make a point at all. You complained about people complaining.

Sure I did, I called it stupid. Apples and Oranges here.

Zen.Master · September 21, 2015, 7:15am

And I thought Vega’s thread was hostile…

Dwin · September 21, 2015, 7:46am

Karin lost two moves(one which wasn’t particularly useful), and gained two seemingly good ones as well as means to make her rekkas even better. Stop acting like she gutted.

Maxman · September 21, 2015, 8:08am

L E L

Neclord · September 21, 2015, 11:33am

Love everything about her so far.

She might end up being my first secondary character. I like her more than Chun atm.

Mika, Karin, Chun… let’s go.

Super_Sonic · September 21, 2015, 12:14pm

I’ve always expected Karin to be the Rekkas style character of this game. Now that we know her Rekkas can only be accessed via V-Trigger, I wonder if they’re going to add another Rekkas style character such as Fei Long, Rolento, Yang or Poison in the long run.

R-D · September 21, 2015, 1:23pm

Same goes for most other anti-fireball tools (although there are exceptions.) But with focus dashes you can sit at fullscreen, focus backdash and build meter, universally, instead of doing the already universal neutral jump.

Look at mika’s chargeable stand HK that goes through fireballs for example - that’s an objectively worse version of standing in front of the opponent charging focus (which is somewhat difficult to deal with for some fireball characters, like Guile without charge.) Anyone with actually good fireballs like Gouken would be much more effective in this game - they just haven’t added many of those yet.

I feel like I could write another essay about this and I don’t know if anyone wants to hear it. What I will say is that those characters may appear similar to SF4, but SF4 is also a modern game that follows modern rules. I assure you that people who played those characters in old games had plenty of things to complain about (chun had a meterless reversal, hooligan grabbed crouchers.)

In terms of Rekka characters, SF4 Fei Long doesn’t really play like his old self and his rekkas were continually nerfed. And even compared to SF4, I’m not very happy with SF5’s Cammy (RH, low strong, airthrow, “wild” gameplay.)

Alpha 3’s rules are very different from those modern games. For example, safety on block is not hard at all to get. Even supers are safe pretty much universally, so reversals are no big deal. That’s not the case anymore, ever since SF3 separated blockstun and hitstun. Even Chun can’t have safe lightning legs in SF5. Anyone who gets safety on block in this game has to pay for it in some other way.

SF5 Karin may be, on the whole, a character who actually plays like their old self for once, minus V-ism anyway. The price seems to be the loss of some icing. But she is allowed to have safe specials, and buttons, and walkspeed to use them. The rekkas might be behind VT, but if you dig into the choices created by the new specials they have the same decision points that you get with a rekka. It’s not straight 50/50 mixup like you get with a grappler or a Dudley, but rather you’re toeing the line between safe and unsafe, and you’ll want to change your actions based on how you think your opponent will respond or try to punish you (like the choice between stopping the rekka vs. continuing into a stagger trap.)

Slizzard · September 21, 2015, 2:34pm

I don’t care for the new Karin style. It is based mainly on her new command dash

That seems really shitty to play against, and to play in fact.

We’re talking about screwing around with wind god fist play…seems lame. It’s not overpowered but…it’s just a lame thing to introduce to sf. Between that and her c. mk xx command dash

Seems really tedious to play against and lame, like an element of randomness that I don’t like. “Yeah lemme randomly shove you to the corner because you don’t hit buttons…” I dunno

Plaid_Unicorn · September 21, 2015, 2:39pm

The thirst for Karin was real bih, dudes engagement levels is 10/10 right now.

petran79 · September 21, 2015, 2:53pm

Fortunately I was banned there for 1 month. Sadly tomorrow the ban is lifted…

R-D · September 21, 2015, 3:00pm

Once people get used to punishing command dash launcher, I think you’ll see more usage of upkicks, given that they allow you more potential for followups than a command dash shoulder would. Not entirely sure what you mean by randomness though.

Linked in another thread. There’s two matches, one starts around 15:40 and is mostly testing out stuff, the other is at 36:30 and is a little bit more of a real match (although they let chun take the second round.)

Some things from the second match:

Around 37:50, lo and behold, someone finally cancels a light attack: low jab into upkicks. Took long enough. So now we have to wonder if any of the others are cancelable.

At 39:40, rekka overhead can be interrupted. Not too surprising, since it has better framedata than the regular version. Chun’s crouching jab is her only 3-frame normal, but even in V-trigger it doesn’t allow juggles.

Rekka works pretty well as a poke in its own right.

HiyaMaya · September 21, 2015, 4:45pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJB8zSXz-XQ

3:48:55 They start testing the advantage of qcf+K~P and qcf+K~d.P on block. qcf+K~P is heavily disadvantage as people might have guessed and qcf+K~d.P is only slightly disadvantage. Cant really tell but definitely around -1 to -3.