Ah, a lot of good replies to my thread. Thanks!
I forgot to mention, UMK3 friend and Tekken 3 friend are different persons although that is not really relavent to the discussion.
I’m gonna look up Soul Calibur 4 matches, too bad there is no PC version.
most the scrubs i know cry like a bitch when hit by long juggles and claim how its unfair, but then again they probably complain about anything they get beat by.
as for me i don’t mind ether way i like plenty of games with and without juggles
They shouldnt have made the mistake to put them in juggle state to begin with.:rock:
A lot of people get turned off of fighters by that kind of comment, no matter how true it is. They’ll have to learn eventually though, so I don’t hesitate to say it.
Most people get turned off of fighter’s because they get dominated due to lack of skill/practice considering they’re casual players. About 90% of people who will take a crack at a fighter now-a-days will almost certainly pick up the latest SF installment due to the earlier nostalgia they would have encountered with gaming experience. This of course is because SF is…well mainstream for lack of a better word. They jump online with no training or theory and expect to be extremely good at the game with very little experience and effort. They end dropping the genre all together because of this ignorance not because of elitist comments from genially good players. I know this because I use to be one of those players lol. Luckily I kept at it though:pray:
Well, more often than not. Alot of these juggles turn into infinites which are repetitive in that you’re repeating the same combo over and over.
i dont mind long combos and dont get frustrated when a long one gets landed on me. however, what i do have an issue with is generally the animation of the recipient during these combos. The animation in tekken, and in particular Mortal Kombat, just looks so disjointed and weird looking i find it extremely distracting and off putting to look at.
i dont know, in something like marvel, relaunches seem pretty natural to me, and in a lot of capcom games, when a character is hit, they generally dont have limbs flailing around everywhere either. Its usually a quite slow animation with not all that much movement in it, which i like. But then in tekken, when the character lands flat on the ground, and then a second later, is up way above the opponents head, with the hit animation being reset every time after even so much as a jab, looks extremely weird to me. The combos in mortal kombat just look extremely stupid to me, and thats a large reason why im pretty much never going to play it. I like juggles i guess, but only when they dont look like total crap, which about 75% do imo.
I think a lot of the complainers would rather be playing some rock 'em sock 'em-esque shit with no hitstun.
This is one of the best posts I have ever read in this website’s existence. If more companies actually followed this guideline, we would have nothing but amazing fighting games to choose from.
Their are no mechanics that are bad in games, simply bad designs are bad. I don’t mind juggles as long their theirs limits to them. Guilty gear and arcana hearts do this nicely. Blazblue and tekken6 on the other hand do this poorly in my opinion.
In my experience, the major issue with new players and fighting games is the amount of time it takes from them to go from “unfamiliar” (losing against everyone) to “advanced” (only losing to the hardcore/top players). Some games have a very low bar for going from unfamiliar to advanced (Super Turbo and Soul Calibur from my experience) and some have extremely high bars for the same (Street Fighter IV, Marvel). Now, this can be different for lots of people (I picked up Virtua Fighter and became pretty good at it in a few months as opposed to SFIV, which took me over a year to even be competitive at) so it’s really about what sort of games click with what sort of people. And then you have some people (Justin Wong, Floe) who are just good at anything they even try.
juggles are fine, some people like them and some not, some people think that they are done well in x games and bad in y games while others think otherwise, or simply dont care
the only problem with juggles is if the game is not well programed can lead to broken stuff, see Hokuto no Ken or Sengoku Basara X, games that i enjoy, but have some silly stuff in them because the juggle system working in a way that wasnt intended
AH3 and T6 have combos that are pretty much the same length. The reason why AH3 combos are “short” now is because of AH1. Go back and look before you say anything about either series.
All I have to say is, I like pretty much all fighting games regardless of juggles or not. Although, I’m not too wild for Soul Caliber for some reason. : \
I guess I just don’t care for the characters too much.
KOF XIII is taking juggles to next level
Tekken 6 has pretty balanced juggles imo, but it also depends who you get juggled by lol, if you get juggled by Xiaoyu it seems it’s like a real long combo and it doesn’t take alot of damage or you get juggled by Kazuya who hits like 7x in the combo and takes a huge chunk of your hp
Some of them try (I was actually thinking mainly about my BB character when I wrote this post), but the sad truth is that developers have no control over how the most effective combos would look like. They could do their best to tweak it from their end but the players always find esoteric stuff they couldn’t cover. That’s why a lot of combos on high level of play tend to be hard- The are made of moves that “weren’t supposed to connect to each other”.
On the other hand, In old school games they have almost total control on what will be possible, cuz it’s all in the frames and pushback. So every 2 frame link on SF4 is there on purpose.
So, basically Smash???
That applies more to Brawl than the other two. At least the other two have hitstun even though DI (which is just a glorified air teach imo) is a large factor there.
It’s funny how you should mention Tekken 3. Jin’s Wind God Fist -> Laser Cannon -> Tsunami Kicks combo does a fairly big chunk of damage, and is an ‘air’ juggle like you say. But someone can just as easily pick Ogre and do his infinity kicks, for an easy and damaging ‘ground’ combo. In fact most characters in T3 can do 40-50% juggles, but those tended to have bad oki options. Having damaging juggles didn’t hurt Tekken 3, it’s still the best selling Tekken of the series.
I think a lot of people would prefer that the more damaging the juggle, the more easily punished the launcher is, and the more technically difficult the combo is. That is to say, going for a move that does 50% or more should warrant that if that move gets blocked, you can take just as much as you were going to dish out. Not only that, but the combo should be somewhat difficult to execute. However, most of the time this isn’t the case. Admittedly this isn’t the case in my favorite fighting games either. A lot of my favorite fighting games have custom combos or a variation of them, and customs combos always lead to extremely high damage. The ones I like that don’t have custom combos usually allow for whiff punishing that easily leads to over 40% damage.
I think getting hit once by an infinite combo and losing is boring, but not being able to do any damage isn’t fun either. Having a whole bunch of time over matches isn’t very exciting. Damaging combos tend to prevent that from happening…unless the game allows for excessive turtling.