Joo's MvC2 Combo DVD. Coming Very Soon

[onReload]

I wasn’t saying that I think most people will get it, as in fully understand it, because hell, only Joo is gonna understand that - I mean I understand all of KYSG’s 3rd Strike combos, but I don’t know exactly why he chose to do every combo the way he did (actually Maj pointed out some patterns, like Q doing multiple back fierces as a concept)…

…but what I get from these videos is a sense of awe and appreciation, even for a game I don’t even play casually, which is pretty cool…and that’s all that’s being looked for, am I right? I don’t think ANYBODY who sits and watches this thing is going to be physically capable of thinking, “Well that was awful!” unless you force my mom to watch it or something.

(Well, she’s really good at MvC2)

I eagerly await the DVD ‘sall I’m sayin’…and I don’t know shit about Marvel or Joo’s geniusly twisted mind or any of that.

[mogwaimon]

I do appreciate the amount of time and effort that has gone into this, but…I have the technical knowledge/skill of a four year old when it comes to Marvel, so I just watch these things for the pretty colors and flashing lights =P Oh, and thanks for that explanation of that Hayato combo, Magnetro. I watched the rest of the series, too. The Sim/Ken dual character combos from the later vids are insane. Will they be explained on the DVD as well?

[Shizuma_15]

whoa wtf i didnt see this thread!!

damn i cant wait to see this stuff i will be checking everyday now this will be a nice lil Christmas present!

THANK JOO

hah :lol:

[VEGA_OMEGA]

I’ve been really looking forward to this ever since I heard about it about a Year ago**!**

phew. I’m still waiting patiently.

[Maj]

Did the [media=youtube]XAE781xmHLc#t=20s[/media] have to be performed on Doom or does joo just like the tin can sounds?

Does the tin can sound only happen when metal characters hit other metal characters or whenever anyone hits a metal character with anything?

[Magnetro]

Has to be Doom cause he isn’t as heavy as Sentinel, but is almost as tall as him when he’s being hit on the ground (leaning back). Blackheart is as tall, if not taller, than Sentinel, but his leaning back hit-animation makes him short. Doom is the opposite, he becomes much taller while he’s being hit on the ground.

[Pablo_the_Mex]

I always noticed Colossus gets beat up a lot in these vids. Is there a specific reason for this? I main him in team Hardbody (mag/col/sent) and I noticed he has a wonky ass hit box at times. If I am not careful he gets caught in all sorts of crazy stuff. I figured the same goes for other characters of similar size and was curious as to why he was/is used so much.

[Magnetro]

He is one of the best combo dummies in the entire game. His air hitbox is really large for his size. He is a bit taller than Cable on the ground. He has high stamina but that doesn’t really matter in high-level combos. But yeah, he’s just a great combo dummy. A lot of moves can hit him from behind (standing and air).

This combo is shows a lot of reasons why Colossus is a good dummy: [media=youtube]y3LaBII5idI[/media]

The first ‘half’ of the combo is done on Colossus Assist, Dhalsim’s Super Jump causes his far air limbs to hit UPWARD instead of regular. In this case, Colossus is a good dummy because he can get hit by everything since he has a wide and somewhat tall air hitbox.

The second ‘half’ of the combo is done on the main Colossus (who taps forward to come out of the bug’s effect). Dhalsim is able to connect 2LP, 2MK, SJ, far SJ.LP, ADDB, far SJ.HK. Since Colossus has a wide ground hitbox, Dhalsim is able to combo a far SJ.LP after getting moved back by the 2MK.

[JAMMAR]

As someone who doesn’t really know anything about marvel… all I can really say is that the work joo and magnetro are putting in is what amazes me. I mean, there are combo vids, and then there’s freaking dvds?! This is passion. I only wonder if we can get some insight as to how the entire process was like someday…

HMMMMMMM

[TastyC]

As someone who doesn’t really know anything about marvel… all I can really say is that the work joo and magnetro are putting in is what amazes me. I mean, there are combo vids, and then there’s freaking dvds?! This is passion. I only wonder if we can get some insight as to how the entire process was like someday…

HMMMMMMM

Ditto this. Can’t wait to see it and I’m not even that into Marvel.

[MegamanDS]

He is one of the best combo dummies in the entire game. His air hitbox is really large for his size. He is a bit taller than Cable on the ground. He has high stamina but that doesn’t really matter in high-level combos. But yeah, he’s just a great combo dummy. A lot of moves can hit him from behind (standing and air).

This combo is shows a lot of reasons why Colossus is a good dummy: [media=youtube]y3LaBII5idI[/media]

The first ‘half’ of the combo is done on Colossus Assist, Dhalsim’s Super Jump causes his far air limbs to hit UPWARD instead of regular. In this case, Colossus is a good dummy because he can get hit by everything since he has a wide and somewhat tall air hitbox.

The second ‘half’ of the combo is done on the main Colossus (who taps forward to come out of the bug’s effect). Dhalsim is able to connect 2LP, 2MK, SJ, far SJ.LP, ADDB, far SJ.HK. Since Colossus has a wide ground hitbox, Dhalsim is able to combo a far SJ.LP after getting moved back by the 2MK.

if im not in the credits or special thanks to, no more dinner for you and i will answer my phone even less

[Maj]

Why does this thread have a 1 star (square?) rating? Can we get it up to 5 or is that impossible now?

[mogwaimon]

Voted, 5 stars

[Remxi]

Hmm I watched through the Meikyousisu series again recently and figured I’d post some questions/thoughts on my favourites here and continue the discussion.

Vol. 02: 1:05 Spiral combo, does teleporting into Juggernaut at the start allow more hits than jumping? It seems she falls slower so maybe so. I like the multiple rejumps later on in the combo using a single knife at a time. 1:40 Jill combo here is awesome, fav part is the OTG into s.HK then SJ from that. 2:00 Captain Command x 3, I like the late DHC into his rush super to get to the other side and then OTG into another DHC sequence.

Vol. 03: 1:25 the Bison/Bison/Ruby Heart combo. Switching sides with the dummy multiple times so the Psycho Crusher hits the edge of the screen was sweet. Reminds me of a similar kinda setup in an XMvSF vid.

Vol. 04: 1.25 Amingo with Zangief assist. I don’t really understand how Amingo works but this looked cool nonetheless. Is that dizzy at the end that causes Jugg to fly up like that? 3:05 Ruby Heart solo, just too good. Fav part is the near the begginning, how the first ghost is comboed into/out of. The Akuma/Thanos/Jill combo near the start was nice as well.

Vol. 05: Magneto/Gambit wow this was an amazing setup, the double kinetic card into crossup OTG super at the end was sweet too.

Vol. 06: 3:50 Dan combo, can you explain what is happening at the start up until his super fireball hits? The rest of this combo was boss though, 2 hit HK Dan kicks, whiffing first part of the Koryureppa, linking from LK kicks and the double whiff snapback before one connects were all awesome. 1:32 Guile with Jugg/Gief assist, very nice.

Vol. 07: 0:28 Ryu, awesome setup for Shin Shoryuken x2, the OTG at the end looked cool too. 1:32 Charlie/Thanos/Psylocke is there something strange going on at the start of this, it looks like Charlie is being dragged along by the screen and Colossus looks like he keeps going into some strange roll animation (or is that just what his hitstun reel looks like?). Anyway the rest of this combo was pretty crazy with the Psylocke + double bubble and the Sonic Boom to Flashkick at the end (how does the charging for that work?) Some more standout combos were the Doom with Spiral assist at 2:52 and the Strider/Thanos combo at the end.

Vol. 08: 0:32 Is this a glitch or just how fast it’s possible to mash throws when you can program the most effcient inputs? 1:55 Sentinel combo was great, nice to see so much of it taking place on the ground.

Vol. 09: 1:05 Jill combo with a bit of help from Strider, very impressive. Instant SJ qcf+P, 3 flaming zombies in the one combo and comboing the rocket launcher into Tyrant super. How is is possible to OTG twice in the same combo though? 3:15 Ironman combo, double smartbomb at the beginning was crazy and so was the midcombo Gene Splice coming from an unseen Cyclops assist.

Vol. 10: What’s the deal with the double character combos? How do you set up the glitch? Also, are these combos being done with the same input controlling both characters? My favourites from this vid were 0:28 Spiral, 0:40 Ironman Inf, 3:25 Sakura/Dark Sakura with mutiple activations and a whiffed raging demon (btw how can Spidey get called twice, the last one is a link?), 3:40 Ruby Heart/Psylocke/Rogue, wow this is one epic combo, too much to talk about haha (although having multiple infs from different characters was sweet, poor Sentinel).

Vol. 11: 0:55 Cammy/Guile, whiff snapback, instant SJ Cannon Drill was nice, also the delayed hit on Guile’s Flashkick super (does that always happen or is it character/height specific?). 1:38 Gambit connects 8 Kinetic/Trick Cards and no normals, cool. 3:08 Akuma with the Gief assist, what causes the purple flame hit just before the beam super? Was it a link into Shoryuken from the overhead? Either way, another great combo (the other Akuma combo in this vid deserves mention as well).

Apart from the combos, the bugs, edition and presentation was all topnotch (feels pretty nostalgic for some reason, I guess they’re kinda old now). I liked the selection of music too except for some of the cheesy power metal which I don’t think fit as well as the other music. Overall this series is amazing and has me pretty damn hype for this DVD. These explanations would be v. useful as well. I feel I understand a lot of the techniques used just by applying my knowledge of other games, but I’m sure I’m missing some of the deeper engine specific stuff (a lot of the bugs are puzzling as well).

[Magnetro]

^^ ha, thanks. I didn’t get that either.

And I also agree with the bigger picture too: yes, there’s going to be a small percentage who appreciate Joo’s opus for what it is-- the culmination of the vast amount time and the special blend of his will-power and both his analytical and abstract approach to the technical aspects of the game that made it possible for him to turn what is a competitive fighting game for most into what is effectively a sandbox game and artistic outlet for him.

The rest are just going to see cool combos, which is really what they are anyway. The only difference is that the people that “get it” just know that this is the product of years of exploration. I don’t see this as a problem.

For me personally, the importance and impact of Joo’s videos have gone through an evolution that more or less mirrors my growing understanding of the Marvel 2 game engine over time. At first, I saw the Meikyousiui videos like most people are going to-- a really impressive showcase of what is actually possible with the combo system. I didn’t understand the nuts and bolts guts of the exploits he was making in each combo, but I still thought they were damn cool and made it a point to keep an eye out for more. Eventually, I took a utilitarian approach to his videos and spent a LOT of time thinking about which small elements of his combos I could replicate and begin using in my own game. This was key IMO to coming to grips with just how special Joo’s body of work is. Here I was, wrestling for hours with one small piece from an extravagant combo that makes up 1% of one single combo from one of his videos. But it was still great fun, and with each 1% that I digested I got a better idea of what his approach to fighting games is all about.

As a result of spending some time with Joo’s videos, I’ve realized the power of the PPAD as an exploratory tool. IMO this is where the majority of viewers are going to differ from Joo, Magnetro, Maj, Eidrian, JChensor, VegaOmega and other combo people. You have to study a situation in a game for years to learn what you can about it in an hour with a Program Pad. Branching out from there, there’s a whole world that’s opened up comprised of things that are impossible to learn w/o a PPAD. Joo exists in that world-- he’s immersed himself so deep into the realm of frame data and exacting positioning that his Marvel is completely different than any other persons. 99% of other players aren’t able to decipher more than a layer or two deep into the elegant and complex situations he crafts, because they can’t visualize the game broken down to the degree that Joo had to in order to gain an understanding of the plethora of variables at work. Only once you attempt for hours to program the most basic of sequences can you really appreciate the time it took to arrive at the level of quality and complexity present in Joo’s combos-- but all that said-- even the casual observer can recognize how COOL THEY ARE.

It’s true across the board that the more you focus in on a single area of a larger phenomenon, the more abstract the concepts and the smaller the body of peers who can really appreciate the level of mastery present. Kinda like watching an 8 minute Doom 2 Rocket Jumping video on youtube. I don’t understand it, but it’s still a lot of fun, so I wouldn’t really dwell on the fact that most people won’t “get it” on the deeper levels, because everyone will get how much fun it is to look at.

I did not realize you wrote all that. That really says it very well. I’m going to post on this my site if you don’t mind.

Vol. 07:
0:28 Ryu, awesome setup for Shin Shoryuken x2, the OTG at the end looked cool too.
1:32 Charlie/Thanos/Psylocke is there something strange going on at the start of this, it looks like Charlie is being dragged along by the screen and Colossus looks like he keeps going into some strange roll animation (or is that just what his hitstun reel looks like?). Anyway the rest of this combo was pretty crazy with the Psylocke + double bubble and the Sonic Boom to Flashkick at the end (how does the charging for that work?) Some more standout combos were the Doom with Spiral assist at 2:52 and the Strider/Thanos combo at the end.

The Charlie/Thanos/Psylocke one involved starting the combo off Charlie’s air throw. From there he did the OTG and did the combo. Yeah, the double Thanos assist was really cool, one helped put Colossus in standing animation after the FSD and the other was timed so that he landed on it. The sonicboom -> flash kick was not really shenanigans as far as I know. There is enough time to do those things with a programmable pad.

The Doom with Spiral assist at 2:52 --> I didn’t know this till recently, but if Doom wasn’t all the way up there, Spiral couldn’t have been called before her knives hit. The assist leaves faster because they’re not on-screen when they are called.

[shoultzula]

the charlie combo starting @ 110, how the fuck did he make charlies qcf+kk super stop half way through it? I’m bout to start picking up that guy full time if he can do c.lk, s.rh, qcf+kk, stop the super, recombo. Thats pretty retarded.

there’s part of a ruby combo that happens around 253 where ruby does the ball, low j.lk. is there a trick to get that consistently? there’s also another example @ 257.

I thought every single one of the spiral speedup combos were dope. I wonder why I don’t see more spiral players abusing that speed up?

can’t wait for the explanations on some of the states you don’t have on your site magnetro. I find those extremely useful. This shit needs to drop now!

[xxphilopiaxx]

the charlie combo starting @ 110, how the fuck did he make charlies qcf+kk super stop half way through it? I’m bout to start picking up that guy full time if he can do c.lk, s.rh, qcf+kk, stop the super, recombo. Thats pretty retarded.

…I should probably let Magnetro answer this, but I want to see if my observation is correct. It looks like there might be some booms hitting while the auto-combo super is going. The booms probably causes a pushback and cancels out the super midway; similar to using an assist to cancel the super.

[Magnetro]

Vol. 10: What’s the deal with the double character combos? How do you set up the glitch? Also, are these combos being done with the same input controlling both characters?

Vol10 was mostly done using the Shuma-Gorath & Magneto-B glitch. The glitch allows one controller to control both characters. As such, every input has to be carefully timed so that there is no negative overlap. For instance, you want character A to do a fireball but character B does a HP before the fireball connects.

Here’s a quick example of how a typical 2 character combo is set up.

My favourites from this vid were 0:28 Spiral, 0:40 Ironman Inf, 3:25 Sakura/Dark Sakura with mutiple activations and a whiffed raging demon (btw how can Spidey get called twice, the last one is a link?), 3:40 Ruby Heart/Psylocke/Rogue, wow this is one epic combo, too much to talk about haha (although having multiple infs from different characters was sweet, poor Sentinel).

The glitch allows the special character to be called an infinite amount of times during a combo.

The special character counts as a regular point character – sorta. Every property is mostly translated over the same. However, there are small things like the opponent can’t throw the special character, but the special character can throw the opponent.

the charlie combo starting @ 110, how the fuck did he make charlies qcf+kk super stop half way through it? I’m bout to start picking up that guy full time if he can do c.lk, s.rh, qcf+kk, stop the super, recombo. Thats pretty retarded.

there’s part of a ruby combo that happens around 253 where ruby does the ball, low j.lk. is there a trick to get that consistently? there’s also another example @ 257.

…I should probably let Magnetro answer this, but I want to see if my observation is correct. It looks like there might be some booms hitting while the auto-combo super is going. The booms probably causes a pushback and cancels out the super midway; similar to using an assist to cancel the super.

Yeah, that’s right. Charlie did a Sonic Boom before canceling into the 236+KK super. The 236+KK super was canceled by the Sonic Boom so he was able to continue comboing off of it.

The Ruby thing requires any kind of Unfly in order to get it 100%. All it is is Hyper Schwarzaile, then when landing (you can either aim it down or let it finish on its own), press any button. The difficult bit about it is that it’s a one frame timing. I guess you can mash all four buttons in a piano sequence or something to ensure some attack comes out.

Also, posted an organized version of EC Zangief’s post on my site.

[Gamegeezer]

Joo made a Jojo video. Masala, original meik vid editor, created his own, he was doing a DVD and that got cancelled. It doesn’t exist, to the public at least.

Ah, thanks for that tidbit of information. It’s a shame there isn’t a place to get a hold of that DVD. Had some bomb ass 1frame impossible combos in it. Initially watching the trailer, there was this reaction that could only be explained as “jizzing in my pants”.

@Magnetro: Thank you for relaying the message :lovin:

[shoultzula]

woah, I think I got some new ideas now regarding charlie. This is why I like joo’s stuff, shit always gets the juices flowing.