JoJo's Bizarre Adventure All-Star Battle confirmed by Bandai-Namco

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
2081

i main Kars :stuck_out_tongue: counterpicking is not really what i aim for

i use Diavolo as well and i managed to beat him 1-2 times with him, once he hit confirms his combo tho it’s useless with such a low hp pool for Diavolo… he eats you alive lol. Kars as well has low hp and i was able to beat him more with him than with Diavolo, probably cause he’s my main, still their damage was too low compared to Whamoo’s |:

everytime i tried to delete time i just had to go for a quick throw or he would stuff everything i was trying to do. about his command grab it’s not that easy, i tried all the setups to command throw and few times it worked, especially when on his wake up, DP kick and gg

2082

Yeah, any character with meterless damage that high that can turn a fireball into a free (really good) close-range mixup from FULL SCREEN kind of exceeds merely “annoying”, lol.

That said, I do agree that Wham’s DP is not that bad and will probably see more and smarter use as the game goes on. And I do agree about invis mode armored mixups being way better/less gimmicky than idiot-checking people addicted to 2L with 421. I don’t think Wham can quite penetrate the top tier – he’s too much of a blockable (but reasonably safe) slow-burn character, he doesn’t have quite the “WTF is happening, also ow” factor of characters like Diavolo – but his 1-bar damage and relative safety on block keep him safely hanging…I would say somewhere around the middle of mid.

2083

oh you main kars, you have that ultimate lifeform. you know you have at least two set ups to get it guaranteed, right.

2084

The main thing holding Kars back is that until you get meter, Kars is really pretty shitty in certain matchups, where getting meter can be as risky as it is slow. Caesar is a good example; the combination of tigerknee’d air bubbles (that 1 fucking bubble that persists!!!) and lens air hit being a knockdown makes it really hard for Kars to attack Caesar (the only way you’ll get any meter for Ultimate Being), whereas Caesar can just build meter with impunity for short oki-focused combos that keep Kars from getting much leverage.

One of the main solutions I’ve seen to this problem is to make a command decision when Caesar is at match point whether you want to REALLY try and clutch it out for Ultimate Being, or give up on Ultimate Being entirely and spend your meter on Light Mode setups to try and run it back (in which case Caesar still has the advantage in terms of meter build and turtle power vs. Kars’ offense).

He and Pucci kinda play the same strategic game (suck early, dominate late if you live long enough), except honestly, I still think Pucci’s better at that game in more matchups. Their early-game damage is about equally ass, but Pucci at least has a really good projectile to be lame with and a REALLY obnoxious 1-bar debuff to help goad the opponent into doing dumb things that get him a life lead, meter, and opportunities for charges. Ultimate Being Kars might transform the matchup favorably for the rest of the match, but I don’t think that really exceeds the easier time Pucci has getting started – and I think Pucci sacrifices FAR less if he decides to ignore MiH entirely (except maybe to build charges for C-Moon to scare the opponent) and just focuses on disc steals and being lame.

2085

too bad i need 3 bars, a perfect position to get ultimate, need to check if Wham doesn’t have 2 bars and in the meanwhile i get 3 bars and on position he will drain like 70% of my health lol.

PS: anyway, they even fucked up something with his 236H, it doesn’t go behind the enemy in a lot of cases, (the backstab hit) making it hard to understand where he’s gonna go to follow up with a cancel or HHA… i hope they’ll notice and fix it in 1.04 -_-

2086

What Kuroi said. “Guaranteed” would be like what Giorno can do now, basic combo into HHA > GHA from anywhere on screen once he has 3 meters. Even Pucci has a somewhat more viable 3 meter option to get into MiH than Kars has for his Ultimate Form.

2087

IF you don’t drop his mid-combo to get 400 damage meterless… if you drop it’s like 180 damage (from a jump in)

about his mixup if you refer to his j.M imho it’s been really nerfed, it doesn’t crossup like before… and yes i find it just annoying, i prefer 100 times to fight a Diavolo than a Wham, really. his damage output, health and hp regen are a pain imho.

2088

Wham is stronger than Cars (without the red stone transformation) even on the manga, the game is just too loyal to the series.

2089

you lie! arnold

2090

I could’ve sworn there was a video of a kars set up video (probably posted in this thread). ends with that wall bounce kick thing, and you activate while theyre flying in the air. very similar to pucci’s set up, actually. same concept anyway.

also, ultimate kars can do close to half a lifebar in damage with no heart heat gauge, so i dunno. pick your battles and take advantage of your strengths is all I can say, haha

2091

you still need to be in proper position to kick and transform, you can’t do it everywhere… and if you don’t do it at the extreme side with your opponent being on the other side, they can stop you, so you don’t just need meter and position to go ultimate but even make sure your opponent has no meter to stop you…

about the video, that combo is character specific and i didn’t manage to even successfully do it…

2092

Yeah I remember there was a FT10 of Kars vs. Caesar that I watched. In one of the matches Kars landed LMH wallbounce kick like 3x in a row but couldn’t convert to PC Ultimate Being because Caesar was too close to the wall and went like 2 feet away. So Kuroi Aima is right, it’s not nearly as consistent as it looks to just convert 1 3-bar touch into safe Ultimate Being activation. This is another big thing holding Kars back.

As for Diavolo, nah, he’s still godlike IMO. The “he sucks if you drop your combo” argument isn’t a good enough one for me, because (a) every character in the game sucks if you drop your combo and (b) if he has to settle for an easy-mode combo, who cares? As long as it finishes cleanly he still gets knockdown, he’s STILL in your face to stage the same mixup again, and he’s STILL accumulating meter that he can either dump into a puttsun kill combo or save for a breaker if he needs an out. And of course even if he doesn’t stage a successful mixup from his time removal, it still gets him back in for free.

Really, I think your problem with the Wham matchup is less about Wham being better than people think (he’s not bad, but not great, either…he banks everything on his 1-bar damage, and in most cases that’s sufficient) and more about Kars pre-Ultimate Being being incredibly shitty. It’s not even a player thing (hard to suck in a game where the hardest motion is a HCB), there’s just SO little to work with before you get Ultimate Being. Light Mode isn’t that hot and his teleports are garbage. They could at least make his feint build meter on whiff or something. Hell, I would consign Kars to the depths of bottom tier with Rohan and Hermes were it not for the (far-off, often futile) promise of Ultimate Being. I don’t think Kars’ struggles against Wham are specific to that matchup.

2093

the only real “issue” i have is his damage, with a few mixups my health is already under the half… with almost no effort, wham is easy as hell to use :expressionless: and Kars 236H doesn’t even work 100% properly against him >_>

i just have to throw him to death, any jump in gets punished by either DP or HHA (my friend is really good at reactions), if he jumps in i can just waste 1 meter to HHA (and i call it waste cause it deals almost no damage to Wham… if only Kars had a DP as well, sigh…) or plain block and eat all his target combo which ends with a safe special… i don’t even try to SD cause if i fail, the damage i’ll get.

it becomes a turtle match which i hate…

2094

I wouldn’t make too much of Wham’s ease of use. 90% of the cast in this game has insanely low execution requirements.

Turtling is still the nature of many matchups in this game, even post-1.03. So much stuff is negative on block and avenues for mixup are so limited that a lot of times your only choice is to poke sparingly and either take a step or two back or vertical jump to attempt a counter-poke. This is true of many characters, but it’s especially pronounced for the shittier ones like Kars.

Kars is really kinda screwed in that regard pre-Ultimate Being because his normals are so-so, and they’re almost literally all he has. His 5M has too much of his hitbox in it to clip limbs with, same deal with his 3H for anti-air. His jab doesn’t reach very high and his 2L has mediocre range. Same deal with his jump-ins – decent depth, shitty reach. All of this would be cute if he had ANYTHING else he could do at different ranges. His specials are not great mid-range whiff punishes. He has no fireball and shit for long-range whiff for meter build. His rapid slashes grant shitty advantage on hit (maybe negative on hit? I’ve never checked) and are almost never worth the meter to make unblockable in Light Mode. And of course his teleports are suicidal against anybody but your 8-year-old nephew.

So your options as pre-Ultimate Kars are pretty pathetic – inch close to your opponent’s max poke range and pray they’re impulsive enough to whiff something you can tag with 2LMH or 5LMH into crossover slash. If you have a decent life lead, you can stay in to fish for more meter, or you can cut your losses and fall back to block and preserve your life lead. Those are really your only options against somebody who actually knows how to play the game.

Wham is not super, SUPER-well-equipped in these department, either, he just SEEMS a lot better because Kars is so incredibly shitty and deprived before he gets his wings. Wham has a much better focus (be okay until your bar lights up, then be good) than Kars (be shitty until your bar lights ALL the way up, then be godlike if you’re lucky), and it shows. From damn near the bottom like pre-Ultimate Kars is, EVERYBODY looks scrubby and godlike.

If you want productive advice vs. Wham, I would say try to space him out and get him to whiff jump-ins, I guess. Wham’s jump-ins have big range (particularly jH), but they take a while to go active, and with good spacing you might be able to tag their landing recovery with an LMH whiff punish. Safe jumps after crossover slash might also be helpful if Wham really likes to wake up with something. Don’t jump at him when he’s standing up, try to get to a range where he’ll either be tempted to jump at you or come in for a jab, and experiment with whiffing inconsequential things like 5L / 2L to invite him to attack you on cue. Footsies are everything because they’re all you have. And if you still hate Wham, look at it this way – you could be fighting Caesar instead. (why, why, WHY do lenses have a hitbox that KNOCKS DOWN before they fire?)

2095

thanks for your reply, i’ll try my best ^^

i wish normal kars had an overhead or a DP, really… not asking for both, even just one of them ;(

2096

We still got infinites!

2097

V.Ice stomp infinite is canon…of course it’d be in…

2098

Gotta love that forward momentum.

I figured that out the other day, but I didn’t want to say anything :3 Looks like the cats out of the bag. I imagine that will probably be addressed in 1.04.

2099

Why am I not surprised that it’s Ice’s stomp, lol.

So I guess they didn’t apply their IPS to OTG attacks, just standing and juggle states. Before this I think only Higechi’s OTG projectile infinite was the only one, and they altered the move itself so it wouldn’t work any more. Anybody else’s options would have required meter for repeated OTG hits so it wouldn’t have been easy to find out.

2100

No, OTGs have an IPS as well. It just seems like this one circumvents it by whiffing the first hit. You can see the OTG IPS in effect in the Koichi and Okuyasu combos.